The Bottom Signal Everyone Is Watching

Transcript

And we're back for another Bankless Friday weekly rollup. It's the second week of June. Ryan is back from vacation. Ryan, uh, we were fighting. I guess we made up. >> Wait, fighting on Twitter? Are you talking about? >> Yeah, that was not a fight. Come on. >> I was on vacation and I just felt compelled. I just had to I just had to tweet at you, David. So, actually, it wasn't about you at first. It was kind of about you. >> It was about my take. Yeah. your takes. >> I was like I read that tweet and I was like okay dude >> well we're going to discuss that right I saw a uh a meme babe look the bankless guys are fighting what's happening so we got to resolve this and actually see where the daylight is between us on the question of the old asset that um you

formerly loved and I still do love ETH the asset >> do I not love ETH I love ETH as an idea uh but we'll get into that uh the topics of the week uh the crypto crash uh the 3rd 25% draw down in crypto since November, the deepest yet. Uh, Bitcoin has roundted the entire Trump presidency. Ryan, we are back towards Joseph Biden Bitcoin prices. >> Oh my god. Obama. Yeah. And you never thought of that. Thanks, Obama. >> Uh, $4.4 billion flowed out of the ETFs in third over 13 days. And then Michael Sailor sold Bitcoin. He did the thing that he said you should never do.

>> What? And then he bought more. So, why did he do that? Why did he do that? I don't know. Uh, it's also IPO season. The SpaceX IPO is tomorrow. Uh, is coming up tomorrow, which will be today for the for you listeners if you're listening to this on Friday. Fortunately, in the crypto side of the world, we have pre-markets. We have preipo markets, which is something new out of crypto. And so, we can take a look at what the valuations are saying. It's too high. It's too high, I think. But, >> you think the IPOs are too high? >> God, they're so high. They're in the trillions. >> Well, they are too high, but like they could go higher. >> Too high to buy. I mean they could go higher but they could also go lower.

This is the the kind of analysis that people show up for on a weekly basis. >> Also go lower. That is right. >> Why don't you take us to charts? >> Yes. It was it was gross on Friday. I looked a couple times at prices and it looked disgusting. >> Before I start sharing my screen, Ryan, we got to talk about OKX. Our friends and sponsors over at OKX. uh the Intercontinental Exchange, which is the parent company of the NYSE, they backed OKX at a $25 billion valuation with a plan to launch New York Stock Exchange stocks and derivatives later this year on the OKX platform. Uh Trady and DeFi in the same app, all in one place, finally trusted by over 120 million users globally. OKX is bringing products

to the US market that Wall Street has been talking about for years, but OKX is delivering them. This is the new money app by OKX. Not just a vision, a road map with institutional backing to execute it. If you are not on OKX yet, go and get a 6% match on RLUSD. That's Ripple stablecoin through the bankless link. Not available in New York and Texas, so I won't be able to get it. Uh but you can, Ryan. Uh but that's not investment advice. Okay, let's go right into the charts. >> So the Iran war was technically bullish for Bitcoin. Uh because it was up, Bitcoin was up about 30% over the course of the war. I think we invaded. When did we invade Iran? Like something like March 1st or something.

>> No real reason why though. I thought like maybe stocks were up and it just dragged up. >> I think it is a complete anomaly. It was just because Bitcoin had fallen from its highs. If we're looking at the charts from its highs down to the LeBron word negative 50%. And so it recovered a little bit, but then we fell from the uh from the peak about another 25%. Bitcoin is right on the 200week moving average. It wicked below it. Yes, it tagged Bitcoin tagged $59,000 which is firmly below it. It has since recovered to above it. First time below the 200 week in this bare cycle since November, right?

>> That's right. Well, also if we go back, we're going to zoom out on the charts here, Ryan, because I since you have uh uh taken a vacation last week, I am now a pro charter. >> Yeah, I see that that blue line. That's got to be the 200 week. >> Yeah. Okay. So the only time we spent below the 200 week moving average in Bitcoin's history is briefly during the COVID crash for like maybe 5 to 7 days back in 2020. >> And then the meaningful time it spent below the 200WE moving average was after the three errors capital FTX drama like the worst bare market worst like cataclysms in crypto. Yeah. Months months below. So, it spent um uh 280 days below, popped back up, went back down below, but then uh as Black Rockck

issued or announced the filing for the Bitcoin ETF, that's when we >> Yeah, we have never been below the bitcoin the 200 uh week moving average before that. So I think this is kind of the question that like market people who are buying Bitcoin or not buying Bitcoin right now are asking is will we do the historically normative thing of bounce off of the 200E moving average or are we going to be due for one more 25% drop? >> When you say historically normative we see both examples. Sometimes we bounce but in 2022 as you just said we stayed below for a while. We camped there >> only only once. Granted, we camped there for a while, but that it was only one time. And again, it was after FTX, three hours Capital, the worst contagion event

in crypto's history, >> actual forelling capitulation, >> plus the highest interest rates in all of Bitcoin's history as well. And like they jacked up interest rates quickly. >> Mhm. >> Now, you could say interest rates are actually still somewhat high. And so, you know, maybe in a higher interest rate environment, Bitcoin is more likely to go below the 200E moving average. But there was just so many events lined up in 2022 through 2023 that pushed Bitcoin below. And I don't really see those same events this this cycle. >> Yeah. I mean, there's a comment Michael Nato made which is like we haven't paid for our sins yet. So maybe there's still some sins. We had a lot of sins in 2021.

I don't know if we have as many sins now. >> I think if we saw some big sinning, like if there was some big sinning, we would have seen it already. >> It remember that the the spooky stuff in October, never found the dead bodies. Yeah. 1010. >> Yeah. Like who knows what that was. We still don't know. Maybe there's still some sin that's just hidden from us. >> It needs to be washed clean by this bare market. >> I mean, we didn't No one expected Hero Capital go to go under because Suzu and Kyle Davies projected so much confidence. >> But but who would be the sinners this cycle? Like Michael Sailor >> clearly could be the sinner. I mean there there was a lot Trump memecoin shenanigans. I guess you pay for that.

>> Trump is in Bitcoin leverage. You know Sam Bank was selling paper bitcoins. Trump is not doing >> the person we know with billions of of Bitcoin and kind of he doesn't like to call it >> an aggressive amount of Bitcoin this week. >> Well, so maybe it's Michael Sailor that's going to be coughing up blood by the end of this. I I can't see how it dips and sustains below the 200 week if if AI stocks continue to do okay. But if they capitulate, that could just be full risk off. Oh my god, >> you know, it's over. We're effed. Get out of this market and then I could see it sustain. So I guess the question is what do you think?

>> You know, are are do you think that now is the time sort of to buy or like if are if you're a betting man, are you waiting for one last capitulation down into the 50s or even lower? My cognitive brain tells me that I can't find a big forced seller in this market right now. And I don't I think sailor is generally sound. My I'm looking at this chart and I'm like, dude, it's totally going lower. >> I think it's going lower. >> It's totally It's totally You think it's going lower? >> Yeah, I think it's going lower. I mean I I I think if you're deploying like >> Uhhuh.

>> look if you had 100% of cash you're trying to deploy of that 100% 50 here >> and then 50 for final wick down not a bad not a bad play here. >> I feel like that's right. I feel like >> and we're eight months into this thing they typically >> on the bare market is early. >> Not that early. It's like >> mid late you know what I mean? It's like if if we're 8 months in we usually bottom after about 12 months. And so that's kind of the the back. >> Well, 12 months I'm counting as like the middle of the bare market and on the second half of that you're on the you're on the up and up.

>> You don't know. It still feels bearish and it still feels really shitty, but like you will have bottomed by that point hopefully if this if this continues. Okay. But what was with the sailor selling 32 Bitcoin? >> He sold 32 Bitcoin. Uh Stretch has been and continues to actually trade off par. Uh, and I we don't really know why he sold the 32 bitcoin. Uh, because it was $2.5 million that funds stretch like dividend obligations for like eight hours. >> Uh, and he only but he only has 6 months of dividend obligations and cash in the bank to fund holders. Correct. Which might be why it's trading off par right now.

>> Right. Right. Right. Right. Um, why he sold 32 Bitcoin and then this week bought 1,550 Bitcoin. Why he sold 32 at all, I don't I don't know. >> I know. >> You sell 32, you create all the FUD, Bitcoin price goes lower, you buy back at a lower price, you go, "Haha, market can't predict me. You thought I was selling. I'm actually buying. I'm Michael Sailor. F you." And you tweet about it. You put, you know, a meme together, an AI generated meme, >> and you go on your way, and people don't know what he's doing. Is he buying or selling? They don't want to, they don't want to >> try to predict him cuz he's unpredictable. He's a maverick.

>> Okay. That's the mischievous plot plotting version of Sailor. >> Yeah. Who version of Sailor do you think there is? I think that he was signaling to the market and he's getting the market used to him selling so that if he if he has to sell in the future, the market has digested this. And he sold 32 Bitcoin knowing that he was going to pile on a f ton of cash to buy more Bitcoin. He didn't plot the malaise of Bitcoin to buy lower intentionally. It kind of just worked out like that. But he knew he needed to provide confidence to the market. And so he knew that he had uh hundreds of millions of dollars of powder lined up ready to go. He

wasn't it wasn't intentionally pushing the market lower somewhere in between these two things >> probably. Okay. I mean I think we might be saying this the same thing. He's taking advantage of the opportunity. Let's say you are an STRC holder. How do you feel with the trading? >> I hold I hold a little bit of STRC. >> Okay. It's not trading part right now. Does that mean you're nervous? month's cash to pay your juicy 11% dividend. You getting a little nervous, Mr. STRC holder? >> Uh, the amount of capital that STRC is off is is recovered by like a two dividend payments.

>> This is down lower than I thought. We went down to like 93% or 93 on >> it went all the way down to 10% off of par. It has it has recovered to 9641 when it should be trading at 100. So it is not is not clear yet. There's clearly a lack of confidence here. It is slowly being restored. >> That's a buying opportunity I guess if you you buy it at 90 then and you make that >> if you buy the yield of 10 11%. >> Yeah. Yeah. So so $90 buyers are but like in the moment you don't really know like some people are comparing this to Luna which is just not like Luna. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, how is it like Luna? >> It's just because like I actually am slightly worried about this. Although it's not underater collateralized in any sense. >> No, it's not. But the lower it goes like there's a positive feedback loop between Stretch and the Bitcoin price. And if Stretch goes down because Bitcoin is going down, it just means that there's an even greater lack of uh faith or confidence in strategy and Sailor. And if he ever does become a forced seller of Bitcoin, he has to sell Bitcoin at worse terms. What he did to solve his problems is he just hammered the ATM on the equity on uh strategy on the MSTR.

Yeah. >> Which like who the f is holding MSTR? >> Like why why would you ever hold MSTR? Cuz you are MSTR at some price. >> Sure. At some price over over NAV premium. >> Yeah. been trading it's been trading at one and I mean it could be it's not down that bad but it could be down worse. >> I don't know. I um it's possible SDRC and the whole uh strategy complex is the final width down and the sin we have to pay for. I still don't think >> it's so much more sound than 2022 FTX capital. Like come on. These are not comparable.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I agree. H how about the the Michael Sailor of um Ethereum? So calmly >> impressing with some major buys even on the week in this bare market. He's down bad right now and >> he's down 10 billion. >> So what does he do? He piled $18 billion into Ether. He's down. >> It's Tom Lee's own blood >> and he's looking down at his blood and he's saying I want more of this. >> That you got to admire that, >> right? So uh you got to admire that. Tomley bought 212 $13 million of Ether on Monday. Ryan, you don't know this because this happened about 10 minutes ago, but he also just bought 25,000 more Ether. This was announced uh just now

used was seeing on chain, so $41 million. So, he's bought a quarter of $1 billion of Ether this week. Legend. That's crazy. That >> that is absolutely crazy. Okay, Tom, in my opinion, we'll talk maybe more about this, but Tom Lee is the most important thing happening in the Ethereum ecosystem right now. It's not even close. >> Uh, Justin with Quantum, that's all cool, but like Tom Lee for ETH, the asset >> is the story for Ethereum right now. >> That's right. That's right. Now, one of uh when when I wrote my I sold my ETH article, somebody asked uh what what events would you say to like would make you like bullish ETH again? And I said the layer 1 burn. Yeah. Followed by Tom

Lee issuing a stretch like asset that leverages the yield of Ethereum especially under the conditions of the burn to provide a stronger more sounder version than strategies stretch. And last week uh we talked about this last week on with H, but I want to talk to you about this now that you're here. Last week, Tom Lee announced that he is going to copy Staylor's playbook to offer 9.5% yield with a uh preferred stock offering. What do you think about that Ryan? >> Do you want to talk about this now? Cuz I know we have a section to talk about it a little bit later. Do you just want to talk about it now?

>> Yeah, let's get out of the way. Let's talk about it now. Let's talk about it now. So I was kind like okay what in your mind what so I think we had a discussion about this and you were like hey Ryan what do you think the probability of of Tom Lee doing this bit mind doing this >> and my take was like um almost 100% like above 80% >> and that just because the Tom Lee playbook has been to take what's working with Michael Sailor and have the second mover advantage here where you get an duplicate it. So, discard all the failed projects. So, if he could, he would was my take. And I don't think he originally intended to or

wanted to, but how is he not looking at SDRC and saying, "Oh, this would work fantastic for Ether in particular because I have this native yield and I'm throwing off 200 to 300 million on my 3% staked ETH anyway, and I have my own validators. Duh. Why wouldn't I do this if I could? So, I rated it higher. I think you rated it maybe lower. You thought it was lower probability. So, I would ask you, why did you think this was lower probability possib? And it's not out yet. They filed they filed SEC filings. There's probably still some hurdles in order to get this to market.

But I it seems like they're going to execute on this. Yes. >> Yeah, they're going to do it. Yeah, this is happening. Yeah. So, there were two reasons as to why I was less sure than you. One, we had a call with Tom Lee and we literally asked him this. >> Well, well, well, we probably can't disclose all of those details, but >> Oh, well, we we had a call. We had a call with we asked him, "What do you think about Michael Michael Strategy's stretch?" >> And he goes, >> "Uh, if we do that, it closes down optionality to us." And so, we we want to preserve optionality.

>> And so, it sounds like they chose the door that they want to go through. some doors as a result are going to close. >> But I think he was compelled by strategies stretch >> and and now stretch or something like this. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and again 3% internet bond >> native yield. >> Mhm. >> Easy do it. How comparable is this to STRC? Cuz we understand that product. We had Michael on the podcast. He described it in detail. When I looked at the filings and I got kind of a LLM summary, it seems like it's basically the same thing >> except that part of the yield at least gets generated from staking plus any kind of DeFi magic on top of that.

>> Yeah. Um the staking element is important. Does Tom Lee sell the staking yield to fund part of the dividend is a question mark because you're not supposed to sell. And this is the other thing that um >> that's the same thing with SDRC aside from like you know does does Michael uh sell his acquired Bitcoin or does he see he seems to be hammering MSTR at the ATM in order to in order to pay for the dividend sooner than >> and Tom has that option and then he just also has the additional option of the 3% yield which he could also pull.

>> Yeah. But like the whether he sells Ether staking yield is or not is important in my mind. And the other reason like why I wasn't totally convinced that Tonley was going to do this uh was because he said we're going to hit 5% and we're done. You know the alchemy of 5%. I think now now I will rerate the chances of this happening which is I think Tom Le's needs to blow past 5%. >> Okay. >> He needs to not stop. He has to if he's going to do the strategy playbook, he has to do the strategy playbook, which means like stop capping yourself. They they earlier said uh that they're going to slow down their ETH buys as they approach 5%. I think they need to not do that. I think they need to go like 15%.

I They need to just go >> 15%. As much as possible. That's the whole deal. >> He's at He's at um 4.6% right now. He did this in 11 months from zero. >> Insane. At this rate, >> he would have 15% in two more years. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if the ETH price goes down even more, it can go even faster. >> I am blown away that he has that he has acquired the capital to do this in a bare market. Blown away at the conviction of launching this in a like the this is the product to launch in a bare market.

>> I totally agree. People people were making fun of Tom Lee for like launching it in the damn week that that stretch was like coming off of its peg and I'm like no this is the best time to la you want to launch it in the hardest possible moment. >> Yes. launch your launch your token in weakness, you know, like because then you bunch of holders, it's all upside. But he's doing the thing, David, where you know, um, Michael Sailor's thing is saying, "Oh, I've I've converted Bitcoin is not just a store of value of money. It's also a capital asset." And I'm doing my alchemy and actually turning this into a monetary capital asset.

>> Mhm. >> That's what's also happening to Bitcoin, to ETH at scale. Like it is a check mark on one of your like >> big ETH has to do this in order for me to buy back in. I don't know why you still need a burn. This is worth way more than any kind of puny burn to me. I think you should buy back ETH, David, on this news. Okay, so can we look at the ETH chart? So we were talking about Bitcoin. Bitcoin's hovering above the 200E moving average. Uh Bitcoin tagged $59,000. It's now up to $62,000. >> Is this Ether's 200? Now we're looking at now we're looking at at Ether. Ether tagged $1,500.

It is now at 1643. Ether is >> 34% below the 200E moving average. And the 200WE moving average for Ether has not gone up, Ryan, in a year. >> Yeah, I know. >> It is it is flat in a year. >> You're bearish because price is low and has been low. And this cycle was super shitty for ETH. And so here here are the two idiosyncratic moments of Ether was going from 2020 at $300 up to $4,600 at the end of 2021. That was the COVID bubble. That was the stimulus bubble, helicopter money, the NFT mania. Ethereum won that cycle. And then we have the return from like 1,500 to $4,000 with the Ether ETF. And it was

really just following Bitcoin. Bitcoin broke all-time highs. Ether did not break alltime highs. And so this is when Ether malaise started to happen. >> Yeah. >> And so I I'll and I'll say that that was Ether starting to lag behind everything behind the market. And then the next idiosyncratic event in Ethereum was with Tom Lee when when Tom Lee started buying when Ether was 15 or $1,600 back in April of 2021. >> Round tripped all that. That's what's crazy. >> And it went up to alltime highs 4,800. And now we are back at at pre-tomly levels. So Tom Lee has almost bought 20 billion dollars of Ether and we are at the same price. And so we had the COVID bubble with helicopter money and zer and

stimulus checks and the NFT mania and that allowed ether to have like the 60x that it had. >> Yeah. >> Then we had Tom Lee and we have erased Tom Lee. Where does $20 billion of buy pressure come from? I mean, look at your chart and you could look at this chart and you could choose to be bearish or bullish. You could interpret it in both ways. You could look at this chart and you could say, "Hey, last cycle, the 2021 cycle, ETH like uh grew so much, it packed two cycles into one and got way ahead over its skis." And it was destined to have a more muted second cycle.

>> And this is the more muted second cycle. And now you have a lot of strong fundamentals being created particularly the the Michael Sailor of Ether and he is viewing ETH as a monetary asset as an internet bond using yield doing the same play that Michael Sailor is doing at scale and it's Tom freaking Lee and the guy has 5% like um if you were bullish Tom Lee last summer which everyone was this is what the chart art shows, right?

And he was just promises. Yeah, maybe I'll get to 5%. And you look at him, you're like, are you really? Are you >> like that's that's cute, but are you going to be able to that? >> Why are you not even more bullish when the guy has executed on 5% and now he's got validators? He's looking to get involved in probably the Ethereum Foundation road map. I'm just saying you could look at this chart and you could take either side of that argument. And I understand what you're saying. It's like gh where's 20 billion more. We're never going to have zer and helicopter money and any it's over. That was the one spike we get. We don't get anything else. It'll just trade flat for infinity.

>> I don't know. Maybe maybe not though. Maybe maybe not. I think I think the thing that concerns me the most is that like, you know, for every buyer there's a seller. And there were so many people willing to sell Tom Lee their ETH. I know >> to to the point that it was just we netted we netted out. >> It's all the it's all the people from last cycle that were just like >> Yeah. >> I like made so much money and just kind of you know it didn't didn't happen as quickly as they thought. >> Yeah. It is a timing thing.

>> I'm work on you. I'm getting to you. I know it. >> Like this isn't this place for the weekly roll up, but like we'll I'll we'll leave little breadcrumbs as well. There's like strong versus weak crypto I want to talk about, but let's just get into the the um trades because we have to move on into the weekly rollup. Uh and so let's talk about inflation numbers. The May PPI inflation came in surging to 6.5%. Uh that is above expectations of 6.4% and is the highest level since November of 2022. Uh yikes. Uh here is the poly market for the Fed rate hike in 2026. It was Ryan just at 14 or 15% in May last month. It is now at 51% chance that we get a federal rate

hike in 2026. Uh Europe is increasing rates. Uh the ECB raised Eurozone interest rates as the Iran war has stoked inflation. >> They're front running the Fed basically. >> Their front their Fed is front running our Fed. >> Uh and then here is the Fed graph that Ryan I know I know you like this chart. >> That's the CPI. So you mentioned um PPI which is kind of a leading indicator for CPI right and that was high. It was 6.5%. The headline number that I think like probably is being reported on CNN and people are pissed about is 4.2% in May CPI 4.2%. That feels like a lot. It was kind of like oh you know the Fed's our aim is 2%. And then postco we've been like oh I guess 2% 3% eh when you

get to 4% that feels high doesn't it? >> 4%'s high. When was it? >> I think 3 3% is tolerable because fiat is weak and all of our central banks have a ton of debt and we owe a bunch of money. 3% is tolerable. 4% high >> that was and a lot of this was driven of course by energy prices which were starting to feel from Iran. Although oil is not crazy at the moment. What's the price of oil? >> I mean like okay the whole entire oil price during the Iran war like the whole thing is crazy but we have high crazy and low crazy and we have settled in low crazy.

>> We're new normal crazy. We're new normal. Yes, we're we're normal for for being crazy. So, WTI is trading at $89. Uh just again for context, it's ranged between $85 and uh and $110. And so, the fact that we're in the 80s is good. I really want to see this break down below $85. I don't really know if makes sense to talk about oil breaking down because that's very charty TA stuff. And what's the point of charting when there's Donald Trump versus the Islamic regime? Like, you can't chart that. Um But nonetheless, it just looks like this. And he can only do it historically. Look at this thing.

>> Granted, uh there was an escalation in the conflict this week. Like we're we're approaching a deal like we are every week, the week before and the week before. And nonetheless, like missiles were thrown, bombs were dropped, uh strikes were had, but >> oil price stayed low during the market during during the turmoil. And so it is kind of indicating that like the oil is like settling out and there's a new equilibrium being established and we're able to supply the world with oil as we need it without prices going too high. And so that there is some cause for optimism if this drops if this is goes down and like drops below and also we do we do get the opening of a horror muse that's going to be so goddamn bullish. I just don't think that's going to happen.

I think this is the new normal. big macro questions right now. The AI trade, will it continue? And then also when Wars gets in, what's he gonna do? There was talk of him. So there's talk of him actually moving the goalposts on the definition of CPI using a different definition. It's like a lower definition, >> you know. >> We're just we're just changing how we count things so we can so we can report better numbers. >> Yes. >> Ask how well that worked for the Soviets. >> That's right. David, we should cut for sponsors. What do we have coming up? Coming up next, we're going to talk about the IPO season. We got this SpaceX IPO coming in tomorrow, Friday, today.

If you're listening to this on Friday, the largest IPO in history. We're also going to talk about Anthropic and Open AAI. We got pre-market pers out of crypto that show us information. We're going to look at that information. And and then Ryan and I will resume our fighting after we talk about >> Oh, were we fighting? Now the real fight comes. It's round two coming up after >> after sponsors. >> But first, you have to listen to these sponsors to get to the fight. And so let's go hear from them right now. $100,000 is up for grabs. MetaMask and Ono are giving it away in the Onondo trading competition. 5 weeks, three tiers. Whoever earns the best percentage return in each tier wins the biggest cut. Pick from 260 Ono tokenized stocks, funds, and commodities to swap inside MetaMask and let your portfolio do the

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market that is trading SpaceX. It's been trading actually on lighter for like a number of weeks now. Uh the purse market is valuing SpaceX at 2.13 trillion and so there is an implied a little bit of a pop coming if lighter traders on lighter are uh valuing it correctly. Traders on hyperlquid did do the job of appropriately valuating Sarah Bris which was a AI IPO that happened like a number of weeks ago. So, you know, still data out there needing to be found. I think it's accurate.

>> I think it's probably accurate, but we're gonna find out. Uh, so if you we all open up our brokerages and we see SpaceX tomorrow trading at two plus trillion dollars, traders on Lighter did their job. Uh, not the only IPO, right? You said it's IPO season. We have uh Anthropic, Open AI, some of the AI native companies coming on the scene. Is that all happening this summer as well? And what's the uh what's the estimated market cap in the per markets for those puppies? >> So both Anthropic and OpenAI have filed. Neither of them have dates. Open AAI is not soon. It's going to come at the end of this year. Anthropic could be soon.

Could be Q3. We don't really know. Um but the implied market cap uh for Anthropic on Lighter is 1.6 trillion. >> Oh, so about a Bitcoin or so. The entirety of all Bitcoin. >> The entirety of Bitcoin. Yeah. And then OpenAI 1.25 trillion. There's an interesting revenue story. Okay, so SpaceX made $18.5 billion of revenue in 2025, reported a $5 billion loss because it just burns cash. Rockets are expensive. >> But out of that revenue, >> uh, out of the 18.5 billion, Starlink made 11.5 billion. So the satellite business, which is like it's like its own, it's like a first party product inside of the larger product. the killer app on the app platform of rockets, I

guess. >> Yeah. It's like the unis swap to ethereum. >> Yeah. >> Back in 2021. >> Yeah. >> Uh and so Starlink made is making 2/3 of um uh SpaceX revenue. Anthropic uh run rate reported revenue crossed $44 billion annualized as of May 2026. The company is on track to post their first ever profit appro approximately 550 million in the second quarter of 2026. >> Incredible product. Have you tried the um the Fable model? >> Totally. Yeah. It's great.

>> Just incredible. >> Yeah. Super smart. It's just like it makes me feel dumb because when I get a response back from Fable, I'm like, "Oh, my prompt was so stupid." Like the the what I'm getting back is it's like I'm asking a genius like idiot questions. >> Yeah. Pretty soon I'm just not even going to prompt. I'm just going to blah just lean on my keyboard and just it'll know and it'll do >> fable. I want something. >> It'll prompt. Yes. Find out what I want and then make that thing. >> Help me figure out what to ask you. >> God, what does that make us like? Just we just get dumber and dumber. We just >> dumber. Super dumb.

>> Okay. Uh okay. But then uh OpenAI revenue. The last private round for OpenAI valued it at 850 billion in March 2026. uh revenue has blown past 225 billion annualized run rate, but their cash burn is $27 billion for 2026. So, open not yet pulling a profit. >> Yeah. I just have to say, as we always say, look, I hate trillion dollar IPOs. >> It's something about that is bad and wrong. >> It's wrong. I mean, who can we blame? I like Paul Atkins >> regulators. Gary Gendler, why did you do this to us? It's look, it's not any SEC person. It's the laws on the books. It's regulation. It's um who do we blame?

Sarbain Oxley. Who do we blame? Like >> uh too much money, too much fiat money. >> It's a fail. But it's just a but it's not just that. It is that. But it's just it's also a fundamental failure of US capital markets that you have to be an accredited investor. >> Yeah. >> That this all happens privately. It didn't used to happen this way. It's like >> it's like tell your kids this is not normal. In in the '90s, >> you could IPO Amazon and it would be $400 million >> and the public 401ks >> the the average investor retail could actually realize 100x, you know, 600x whatever upside on that. That is no

longer the case. So they IPO and then your exit liquidity and whatever it goes up a few trillion who cares. >> Yeah. What I think there's two parts of the story. One part is that it is encumbering to be on the public market because of compliance and regulation and it's costly and so only big companies can do it in the first place. So we need to open we need to stop being public be such a stick. We need it to be more of a carrot than a stick. Yeah. >> And so we create incentives, lower the barriers.

>> The other side of the equation is that >> it's just so much benefit, so much better for founders and companies to take private money. >> Part of part of the reason is because >> it's the same side of the equation. Honestly, >> it's the the point >> don't want a ticker or they don't want like quarterly reports. That's all part of >> is that they can take private money because there is so much private money out there because there is so much money out there. There's so much money out I think it's both both sides of the same coin, but it's the same root issue. It's just it's a failure from the US capital markets, but whatever. We're not going to solve that today. I just This is not good for populism, is it?

>> No, it's not. It's not. I do like that we are trading these things on an Ethereum layer 2 ahead of the IPO, months ahead of the IPO. >> For sure. >> It doesn't quite solve the problem at hand, but it's pointing in the in the correct direction. Like we >> It's more democratic. >> It's more democratic. waiting for your brokerage to list this thing after it's hit like $3 trillion. >> Yeah, that's right. >> All right. You want to tell us we got Okay, round two. >> Uh yeah. Okay, so um there was a tweet. I think this this is the meme. Babe, look. The bankless guys are fighting.

>> Oh, I actually didn't see that one. >> You did not see this. This in one of the replies. Um okay, so I was on vacation last week and there was it was like it felt like I very I didn't look at my ex timeline very often. Yeah, >> the few times I did I looked and I was like, "God, man, ETH sentiment is so bad right now." And I understand why. And we could take back to the chart, the price chart you were just showing. It's been flat for 5 years, right? Like we haven't done anything from a price perspective.

This is why there were errors made in the L2 road map. All sorts of reasons we could get to. >> The one thing none of that I mean it's disappointing. That's disappointing to me. None of that triggers me. The only thing that triggers me just a little bit is the idea, this mental fallacy that Ethereum can be a successful platform without Ether, the asset being worth a [ __ ] ton. And by that I measure [ __ ] tons in the trillions, many, many trillions of dollars. It has to be a global reserve asset or else the alternative because the entire purpose

of the platform so says bankless thesis so says the reason like I started talking or writing about ether the asset Ethereum to begin with is strong defi okay so you can't have strong defi on the back of a dollar custodial stable coin called USDC or Tether, you have to have strong DeFi on the back of a crypto native asset that does not settle in mespace that settles on chain. And in the shared security strong DeFi setup of the Ethereum ecosystem, that asset is Ether. And so I don't care so much that

people are like, "Hey, it was a good run. We put 10 years into this thing." and it's just like it's not working out or it's kind of working out but it's just like gh we're not going to get there and Bitcoin has taken all of that narrative. I understand people thinking that I don't blame them and um I think that way too. I'm like h I thought we'd be you know further along than we are actually now. I thought some of the strong DeFi experiments actually might work like single collateral die or like other cryptonative stable and they haven't. A lot of those things just haven't worked and things have gotten more trady. But the fact that those

things haven't worked um just points to the possibility that Ethereum is a failed project. In other words, you can't you can't say, "Oh, Ethereum has succeeded without Ether, the asset, also succeeding." I'd rather people just say, "Looks like it's not working out. We had high expectations. The project is just like not working out." What triggers me a little bit is when there's some sort of idea that no, Ethereum is successful. It's just Ether the asset is successful.

No. If Ether the asset is not successful, Ethereum wasn't successful. It was an urbanesque niche like sideshow thing that didn't change the world at all and actually didn't achieve the cryptonative aspirations it set up. And that's it. That's all. And so that's what I tweeted out, which is just like, hey, I find this triggering. You can't have Ethereum succeeding without Ether, the asset succeeding. And so that was not targeted at you necessarily. Although I I felt some kind of inclinations towards that where it was kind of like in your post why I sold my ETH there was an idea that Ethereum could be oh su EF could be a successful

nonprofit, right? Remove the successful piece out of that sentence. And I probably might agree with you that that would be the failure mode. it would just be a a failed niche nonprofit type project that just didn't succeed or impact the world. And I guess the reason I feel somewhat strongly on that is because it takes me back to like 2019 and 2020, which was just like the same sort of thing. ETH is gas. Ethereum could be successful. ETH doesn't need to be money. And it just was like, uh, I thought we already talked about this.

No, it it may not be successful. It may not be money, but a precondition for its success is that ether becomes a store of value reserve asset. So when I put it like that, I'm wondering how much daylight is actually between us in this debate. Not too much. What I want to emphasize and see if I can get you to agree with so we can like stand on that foundation and move forward is that what you are what I see you doing here is that you are prescribing a win condition for Ethereum. That is your opinion and aspirational and what you want to happen and it is not inherently what is capital

T about what Ethereum is. kind of in the same way where you know when Bitcoin was born it was born as a peer-to-peer digital cash system and then it turned into I don't know what the next narrative was and then the next narrative was Bitcoin is digital gold and now Sailor's trying to adapt the the narrative into Bitcoin is digital capital. Bitcoin was never a peer-to-peer digital cash system. It was never digital I actually don't think it's digital gold. We are collectively learning and proddding at what Bitcoin is. We still don't know what Bitcoin is.

We are learning how it fits in people's portfolio. We are learning how it works as a financial instrument and and we are updating our models as we go. We can do the same thing with Ethereum where in 2019 when you were saying like this was triggering to you because it was back in the old days of like ETH is just gas. In 2019 we had we had strong DeFi ahead of us. Strong Defi was being built. We were excited about it. It was somewhat working and it was going to be working even more going into DeFi summer in 2021. Strong DeFi and strong Ethereum was like the big thing. Now we are looking back on that. We're like it's not exactly working very well. And what is working very well is that Ethereum is

like a really good uh ledger upgrade technology for the back end of the world's largest financial institutions who are paying like $20 a year in layer 1 settlement costs to have and improve ledger technology in as their as their database and that's just not strong DeFi and strong crypto and that's not strong Ether the asset but that is Ethereum being adopted you know that is you know institutions building on Ethereum that is Ethereum the ledger technology proliferating across the world. And so I'm I'm I'm what I'm trying to do as an investor when I talk about Ether and my decision to sell my ETH and saying that like Ether price is what it is and I don't really see it going anywhere is that I'm trying to not be prescriptive

about what I want Ethereum to be. Although I there is zero daylight between you and me about what we want Ethereum to be. But I'm trying to like not I don't want I don't think it's prudent to have my financial position be aspirationable aspirationable about what I want Ethereum to become and what I want Ethereum to be used for because if the market is not using it for that then I need to reconsider my position. >> I see. I think that hm maybe this is more semantics then in terms of where where it kind of breaks down because I guess to me I don't know if you'd agree with this but to me >> so goes strong DeFi so goes Ethereum basically so if and this is kind of the

strongest case that you make with respect to looking at this as an investor and saying strong DeFi hasn't worked out so far right >> and like I I see that too it hasn't worked out what has worked out is some of the ledger technology. What has worked out by the way is the thing that Bitcoin is which is whatever you want to call it store of value asset right onchain bearer instrument that kind of thing. Um, so you could say that strong DeFi is not worked out, but I think if you have to say, at least I believe this. This is not necessarily just a a subjective win condition that I'm making. It's certainly my preference. I think it's actually more objective because if weak DeFi is the only thing we get, we get Bitcoin and we get weak

DeFi. Ethereum is way overprovisioned. It's back to it has too many nines. It doesn't need the security guarantees and the censorship resistance and the privacy and the open source and the sec I think I did crops right there. Right? It doesn't need all of that. You just do it on Canton network. Fine. You're done. Call it a day. We got some super validators. >> Done. We got some nice ledger technology. We got some, you know, you don't need Ethereum. The only thing you need it was back to do you remember when Donrad was like what apps actually need crops? And then people were like this, this, this, and this. And he's like at the my submitted. I was like, ether the asset needs it. And some DeFi like unis

swap does. And he was like, oh yeah, that's probably the answer. That's the only thing that needs crops, guys. Strong DeFi. Ether the asset store of value. And so I guess what I'm saying is um what you'd have to do is you'd have to look back at Ethereum and be like, "Yeah, it was a cool attempt and it did the EVM and then a bunch of then blockchain proliferated and it has a spot in history." But ultimately the dream kind of failed because Ether never became a store of value asset and strong strong crypto didn't work anywhere outside of Bitcoin. So to me, this is why it's probably semantics. to me. Um, describing what your case is and why you sold your ETH, that's just called

Ethereum failing. And you could be like, I'm selling my ETH because I think Ethereum is going to fail and Ether the asset is not going to appreciate. Again, it's probably just semantics. We're probably saying the same thing, but that's the piece that triggers me just slightly is because I feel very strongly that Ethereum is nothing without Ether the asset. Aside from like we tried that thing and it didn't work. Like we tried Webb van back in, you know, 2000 and we were re really waiting on like Uber Eats for food delivery, something like that. >> Mhm. Yeah. The there there's um a lot of people on on Twitter are saying like the whole ETH not Ethereum is just a reincarnation of blockchain not Bitcoin.

>> Yeah. And I I want to throw a flag at that because that's an incorrect comparison because when the whole like phenomenon of blockchain not bitcoin was literally just blockchain technology not bitcoin the blockchain and so they were going to use IBM hyperledger you know intra database blockchain technology literally the blockchain technology but without any sort of asset that was a complete failure the actual the actual reality is is public permissionless blockchains not your private internet that's that's the real innovation >> but the same that there was this the similar thing which is there fading the digital bear asset, the store of value.

That was rat poison squared. That was a Ponzi scheme. That was speculation. That's not the thing that's important. Oh, it turns out that's the only thing that's important for Bitcoin. And I'm just saying that's also the only thing really that's important for Ethereum is Ether the asset plus some strong DeFi around it. Everything else you could do on the Canon network or something like that. Yeah, there there's some benefit to like, you know, using a public permissionless blockchain, credible neutrality censorship resistance all of that stuff. And that's why Wall Street is using Ethereum, not Camon because of the public permissionless blockchain nature of it and as a shelling point of where everyone else is building. Yeah. But anytime uh like I I talked to the figure guy who's putting

HELOCs on chain, so you can go buy helocks and get like 9% yield. Great financial opportunity. We're democratizing access to that. They get to tap the world's capital markets. People get access to heliloc investments. That is Ethereum the blockchain. >> Yeah, I think >> using Ether the asset is just not relevant in that flow. >> Oh, I agree. I agree completely with that. But like I think that they are using it and they're issuing on Ethereum first because of network effect. >> Mhm. And I think that part of the reason Ethereum is getting that network effect is because of crops and that propels it.

Um, so for example, I noticed um, Circle this week they launched a Bitcoin custodial kind of tokenized product, right? And they launched on Ethereum first. It's because Ethereum has that strong network effect. I don't think they're launching it on Ethereum for like crops for their wrapped Bitcoin products. >> Definitely >> and their second chain is their own chain. It's Arc, right? That's the other place they're launching it. So I think the benefit is kind of a side benefit and it comes from network effect not because the real world tokenized asset actually needs the crops guarantees of Ethereum. Does that make sense? I think that's probably a subtlety you'd agree with.

>> Yes. Yes. And overall the point that I'm that I'm making is that you know Ether the asset and I have said this on on bank list thousands of times throughout the year. Bitcoin, the blockchain by Bitcoiners, is viewed as an incumbrance upon BTC, the 21 million hardcap unit. And if the philosophy of Bitcoin could do this, they would do away with the blockchain so that they could just have 21 magical units. But turns out you actually just need the blockchain and proof of work as these minimum viable mechanisms to secure the asurances of 21 million units. And so you have to deal with the incumbrance. I agree with that.

But the philosophy is the Bitcoin is 21 million units and that is Bitcoin and everything else is just a means to that end. >> Here's the last thing on this and we can Oh, did you have more to say? Go ahead. >> Yes. Cuz we cuz when we talk about Ethereum that relationship is inverted where Ethereum the blockchain is the point. Ethereum the block space with crops is the point. But and Ether the asset has been a means to an end of providing World War II resistant block space. And when we were talking about ETH as money in 2021, a lot of that money talk was out of an emergence of properties. Not any one specific mechanism other than the burn. Not any one specific mechanism, but that's because the economy is built on Ethereum. Ether emerges as money because

of all these money episodes that we that we did. I think part of the reason you're saying that is because that's how Vitalic and Crew have pushed it and the narrative has been set is like >> that's also the era that we are in now is strong crypto is out, retail crypto is out, crypto believers are out and Wall Street is in. And it seems to be we've we are just handing the torch to Wall Street and be like here's our sick ledger technology, put any of your assets on it and forget about Ether. >> Maybe. I don't think it's over yet. If you're right, the second thing that makes Ethereum a failed project by my definition.

>> By your definition, do you when you say Ethereum is a failed project, you're it's still producing blocks. It's still crops strong. >> It's not crops. It's not USC is not crops. USC is crops >> for what though? For something that um Jeremy can freeze. Anyway, we could debate this for I just have you one last kind of thing that I think is kind of somewhat interesting or somewhat funny and this is not a like a poke. I think it's the actual truth. So, would would you be saying this if ETH right now was trading at 10K?

>> Certainly not. >> There you go. >> But no, my counterargument to this >> that's not an argument that that that's like that's I think the truth of it is that you will believe it when you see it. >> Totally. The problem is when you see it, it's too late to appreciate the upside of it and you will buy Ether at the price you deserve >> if this all comes true. That's the Bitcoin thing, too. >> I I'd also like to emphasize that >> this is not necessarily just like a lack of faith about Ethereum the project.

This is an existential questioning of crypto the industry. >> Yeah. which is larry >> lar represented by Ethereum and so when when people say like my conviction in crypto is gone >> Ethereum gets the brunt of that because it represents crypto in the hard sense >> I get it >> but it's it's just like dude what are our products that that generate and capture value it's per stable coins I get it and then and then maybe it's also privacy like maybe we could get privacy here too and that's why Zcash is cool and and if we had privacy on Ethereum layer It'd be better >> and we're going to get that.

>> Yeah. >> Let's let's leave it here. I think this may be an ongoing ongoing discussion as I come in as guest host for the weekly roll up. But I appreciate the engagement here, David. We got a few more things to talk about though. What else you got for us? >> Uh, we're going to talk about Morpho raising $175 million and flipping a market cap and then Zcash dropping 60% right after I buy it. What did I do? What did I do? We're going to get to all of that and more, but first some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible. Trading is changing, not gradually. Right now, OKX just launched Trading Bots directly inside the OKX app. Grid Trading, DCA arbitrage. You set your strategy once and it executes around the clock. No staring at charts all day, no manual entries, no missing

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analysis has been absolutely on point. I've been following him for years, and this year we started recording weekly podcast episodes. Each one, we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market value of Bitcoin and Ether, and where we are in the cycle. There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday. They're 30 minutes. They're short. They're punchy. I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most. So, let's do it together. Go subscribe to this podcast. Search the DeFi Report. Wherever you get your podcast YouTube Apple Spotify or find a link in the show notes, there's a new episode waiting for you. Now, announced last week is Morpho raising $175 million co-led by Paradigm A6Z crypto and Ribbit with also participation from Apollo Circle Ventures Van Ec. In that same week,

Morpho $1 billion market cap, $1.2 $2 billion FTV, flipping a >> Whoa. >> At $970 million market cap and a $1 billion FTV. To me, Ryan, not to be a dead horse, this would be the last thing I say about this, but when Morpho flips a back-end financial infrastructure for the world's largest financial institutions, minimum viable use of Ethereum flipping strong DeFi. This is weak crypto flipping strong. No, I think Morpho is pretty strong DeFi. It's as strong as a definitely as strong as a from a smart contract perspective. I get that there's all stable coins doing this. I think that the the the way it's sort of a

weaker DeFi is they're not as dowy as a which by the way to me has been like a millstone around A's neck and a hindrance is like oh first we got to talk to the DAO >> and like >> Morpho is just like no we've aligned all parties and like Paul is running the thing and it's got the founder energy and it's not like tyranny of the structuralness and he just like runs the thing and he does it well but at the smart contract level really I mean You tell me if I'm misunderstanding it that the difference is you have segmented vaults with risk whereas a it's all pulled together. In some ways, Morpho is even more like strong DeFi, particularly if it was with >> hardened DeFi. But the idea of

everything being onchain and then onchain assets governing over risk pools to me that is that is strong DeFi. And so like Dows are strong DeFi. And so what you're saying is like yeah, these are a centralized team who can move fast and and like shake hands with Apollo, the largest private equity firm. And I'm like, "Yeah, dude. That's weak crypto. That is ledger technology for the world's largest financial institutions." And then like a token holders risk managing onchain uh is strong crypto. And that's just slower and harder. I guess V1 crypto. I think Dows were a bad idea.

>> I think Dows were one of the bad ideas. >> Dows are strong crypto. >> Dows are a strong crypto. >> It was like structurlessness like >> you know, we're all going to make it crypto which ended up being the wrong path. Tell me about Zcash. Okay, so what happened? >> Okay, so uh this this is this is actually an AI topic. Uh on on May 29th, a security researcher was using Enthropics Opus 4.8 and he basically typed in the prompt find me an exploit in Zcash and it found it found, make no mistakes, and it found one. Uh a critical flaw in the orchard pool. So Zcash has privacy pools. So you have the transparent supply of Ze that's the UTXO set. That's a set that's on exchanges.

Uh you can also just hold this as an individual and your exec is like accounted for in the or you could put it in the privacy pool and then you and you mix it up with everyone else's. >> There was a vulnerability discovered in the privacy pool that would allow uh an exploer to mint unaccounted for Ze. And so if you infinitely basically as much as they wanted >> up to the amount that is deposited in the privacy pool. So you could only withdraw the amount that's in the privacy pool. >> Double your money. Yeah, exactly. And so it would be a transfer of Ze from privacy pool depositors to the theorized exploer. There's no proof that this exploit was ever exploited.

>> There's no proof that it wasn't. >> There's no proof that it wasn't. This is true. Um that it was patched and then a hard fork was shipped uh very quickly before it was announced. Uh so a hard fork on June 3rd uh fixed the privacy pool and then the public disclosure came on Zoom uh June 5th. But the news that no one can prove that it wasn't exploited sent Zeck tumbling about 50% uh hundred million dollars of liquidations and then Arthur Hayes saying that he's out. Um there is a uh an upgrade coming uh iron wood hard fork that brings in a new shielded pool and Zcash does this. There's like new pools every now and then to like upgrade the cryptography, make it stronger. Uh just like software updates, you know how you update your phone, like software updates for the privacy pool. Uh and then this

time it's also going to be formally verified. Uh and then there's also AI assisted just circuit analysis of the ZK circuits. Just some much more rigorous asurances around pool >> stronger assurances that this doesn't happen again. That's right. >> This this um vulnerability was active since 2022. Right. So it's a long >> possible to be to be found in since 2022. >> So a long long long possible window. But in my understanding things I think I read this that with the new upgrade they'll also be able to tell if it was actually exploited. So it won't forever remain a mystery. And that's a key part of the puzzle is once this upgrade happens, you can tell if someone triggered the, you know, double my money button a few times.

>> Correct. Every time we hop from privacy pool to privacy pool, every time there's a privacy pool upgrade, you can get ver asurances that it was not exploited in the past. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that this is sort of quite possibly if you're bullish Zack longterm, which totally >> I'm not sure if you should be, but if you are, >> um, this is sort of a buy the dip type moment probably because totally >> um, >> people buy it. It's up like 40%. >> There's going to be there's a bathtub curve with AI related issues with bath like have you seen this with you have flaws at the beginning stage of something and then they dip down, right?

and you get kind of a bathtub floor and then maybe they dip at the end when the everything fails or whatever. But anyway, what I guess what I'm saying is we're going to see a bunch of these types of issues with the advent of AI, but then we're going to find them all with the advent of AI and resolve them, protect against them, >> equip tools, formal verification, >> and then they'll be stronger than ever, and we won't have these flaws in the future. That at least is the hope. But I think that's kind of what I expect to happen here.

>> Yeah. Part part of my calculus in my decision to sell ETH was that like, dude, everyone's scared to put their money in DeFi. >> I get it. >> And and but also on the flip side of that, there is the equal and opposite to exactly what your point, the other side of the bathtub. They'll be scarest we've ever used. >> Yeah. They'll be we'll be in the bathtub for we'll be in the bathtub and it feels good. The water feels good and then everyone will hop back in into the bathtub. Be all one shared bathtub together. >> Dude, okay. I told you I'm out of fs to give.

>> From we're going from bankless boys are fighting to bankless boys are in the bathtub. >> What about this? Uh Jason Kanis 3 years ago he tweeted this and I remember being absolutely livid. He said this really >> if you're in kind of I was just annoyed. Can't you say something nice about crypto Jason? We're dying out here. This is 2023. If you're in crypto, pivot to AI. Did that age well? Did that tweet age well? >> Yeah. I mean, >> hard to say it's not age well. >> You can't say. Yeah, but at some point, at some point, crypto is down bad and AI is IPOing at multi- trillion dollar valuations.

>> Yeah, maybe at the point Jason's taking victory laps, maybe that's when it ends, huh? >> Um, I guess we're wrapping this up, but um I did see Hester Pierce. We we would like to give a shout out >> is resigning. Yes. >> To Hester Pur who wrote a blog post typed uh or gave a speech uh titled Purse almost out. Um Hester Purse, commissioner of the SEC, has been at the SEC as long as we've been doing the Bankless Podcast. She has been a light for when we needed it the most in the darkest of nights. Uh when Gary Gendler was releasing office hours, Hester Pur was releasing incredibly poant remarks, critical remarks. Uh and so she's been

on the podcast like eight times. We we she's been as regulators mom just like round of applause for Hester person, >> but also like just like base fundamental principles of like why am I a regulator? What are the principles I am as a public servant to uphold? >> She you hit those ethical standards and she delivered >> such eloquent speeches. She get I actually she's such a um well spoken person. I think maybe bankless podcast could use a co-host energy and I don't know if pur is looking on the market.

Hesser, if you want if you're looking for a job, the revolving door, you know, you you'll leave regulation, you come join, >> join the podcast. Let me uh read a few remarks, just a few sentences from her from her uh from her statements. I'll just read the beginning of the end. So, this is the very beginning. Uh thank you, Jim. She says, "Thank you to the person who introduced her. >> I'm delighted to be a part of the summit. My views are my own as a commissioner and not necessarily those of the commission or my fellow commissioners. My days of giving that disclaimer are rushing to an end. >> After nearly 30 years in DC, I am leaving the city and moving to the beach. Then she gives a a number of the beach. She gives a number of points. Her main points in this speech is that

capital markets succeed because governments stay out of the way. >> United States capital markets are the world's best because the government acts as a referee, not as a player. Uh government power must be tied to consent. And recently the SEC commission has been correcting course in a way that feels more aligned with her. But that did not stop her, Ryan, from giving further dissenting marks about where she thinks the SEC continues to need to improve regardless of who is in the chair seat. I think she's always been the SEC's biggest critic, uh, which is why we love her the most. And then she finishes with, "Thank you for indulging the meandering reminiscence of a soontobe formul former regulator. I am sad to be leaving a place that has

allowed me to engage in the important work of regulating the finest capital markets in the world alongside fellow commissioners and a wonderful staff who are committed committed to doing that task as well. Happy 250th anniversary to the nation I am so honored to serve. >> Well done. >> Thank you Hester. >> Yep. Thank you. Thank you for the service. Um >> and um >> does that wrap us up? Yeah. >> Thank you for listening to the weekly rollup. Uh one last poly market before you go Ryan. Uh, as the world's greatest soccer fan, who do you think wins the World Cup?

>> The World Coin Cup. >> World Coin Cup. >> The World Cup. Okay. I'm not going to look at these answers. Isn't it um probably a South American country, right? >> Or European. >> You could pick Argentine. >> Argentina. Argentina is going to be my guess. What's Poly Market say? >> Uh, so it's pretty close between Spain and France at 17 and 16%. Um, Portugal is number three, England number four, and Argentina at number five. But, you know, it could be anyone's game. Dude, there is two billion dollars on this market.

>> Okay. >> Two billion dollars on the market. Why didn't Ethereum do sports betting? >> Oh my god. >> Put sports betting on chain. >> Wait, that's Oh, wait. Oh, okay. Anyway, >> it's on Polygon. Put it on the layer one. >> Yes. Yes. Burn some ETH and then D back in. They'll buy more of it. >> Are are they stopping by? Cuz it's in the US this year. Is World Coin Cup stopping by New York City or >> World Coin Cup is in New York. It is in Atlanta. It's in Seattle. It's in Florida. Uh >> those are places you can get to.

>> Yeah, I I'd go to a game. Maybe I'll go home and see my family in Seattle. I'll go to a game there. >> I think you should go to a game. Tell me how it is. >> Big sports fan. >> All right. Well, say stay tuned for your uh the world's best coverage of the World Coin Cup. Uh that's it this week. Bank station. Thank you much for sticking with us. Uh Ryan will be back on vacation next week. Just one one week he's in, one week he's out. You never know what he's going to throw at you. But nonetheless, crypto is risky. You can lose what you put in. This is Frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the bank's journey. Thanks a lot.