Bitcoin's cycle, Crypto Week and the case for Bittensor with Karia Samaroo

Transcript

GM. Good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show where we're so bullish, we're putting down payments on imaginary yachts. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Monday, July the 14th, and today we are joined by Kario Samaru, the co-founder of WonderFi, which was recently acquired by Robin Hood for $180 million. also the CEO and founder of XTOW. That's XTAO, the first public public company that's focused exclusively on Bit Tens, sir. Today we're going to talk about so much.

I'm so stoked for this episode. We're going to talk about Crypto Week in the US. What is Crypto Week? What's going on? Why is it such a big deal? Bitcoin absolutely ripping alltime highs. We're going to talk about why Karia thinks that the Bitcoin bull run is just getting started and where he thinks it's going from here. altcoin season. Obviously, we got to talk about alts. We're going to pay special attention to Pump, which had their token launch over the weekend. What is going on with Pump and why we see this as an exciting trend around the return of ICOs, and of course, we're going to talk about Bit Tensor and Tao and Kario's outlook for that. Today's episode is brought to you by Letin Get Cash without selling your Bitcoin. is also brought to you by Definitive, the leading multi-chain trading terminal trusted by Dows, funds,

and protraders alike. Without further ado, Karia, welcome to the Milk Road Show. >> Thanks, Jay. Great to be here. >> Pleasure to have you, my man. What an exciting week. Wow. Like, how how you feeling? >> Yeah, it's it's great. I mean, it's crazy to see Yeah. not only Bitcoin all-time highs, crypto week, obviously really excited about everything that's happening within Bit Tensor, but I mean just across the board, it's uh it's crazy. And like you mentioned, Pump.f fun, there's so much happening in the space.

>> There there's there's so much to talk about. I won't deny like as a daily podcaster, there's there's definitely weeks and months where like there's not as much to talk about, right? Shout out to everybody who continues to show up. Deep bow for you guys. I love you guys. Uh but this is one of those weeks where and it's been like this for uh it's amazing. I had an interview earlier today with um a a a quant trader, somebody who runs a quant trading firm and he was talking about how you know as a quant trader like you you you don't make decisions based upon vibes or narratives or like you know the the the instinct. You just you know you have a system and it it follows does trades based upon your system. and he was

talking about how he can even feel the energy right now and the shift that's happening. Um, here here's here's my question to to start off is the tough thing is when these pumps happen, it's very easy to feel like here we go, right? Like we're going to we're going to Valhalla. We've all been waiting. Bitcoin's going to 200 plus. Yeah. What do you make of >> of the market right now? And maybe start by talking about Bitcoin.

>> Yeah. So, Bitcoin, it's funny because you asked that feeling of almost euphoria that that happens and you and I have both been in the crypto space for a long time, so we we've seen cycles. I'll talk about Bitcoin first, but that that feeling I think is an interesting one too because having been through multiple cycles now that is the point where there's a lot I I really focus a lot more on just doing really doing analysis and and trying to take a step back, remove the bias, get out of the, you know, get out of the vacuum that exists because I think uh it's it's that classic saying it's like, you know, when you feel like when you feel like you're a genius because you're making money on everything, it's like that's the time to sell. I'm not saying that's that's not where I think we are right now, but I

think, yeah, as the market heats up and you're seeing hundreds of millions of dollars raised in, you know, 10 minutes, it's it's interesting to to to at least like have to have that lens. But I think with Bitcoin, it's it's really exciting to see. I think Bitcoin's going to go a lot higher from here. I feel like we're just getting started. The US policy changes and promises that are coming with some of the stuff that's happening in crypto week. I, you know, being a securities lawyer by trade, I'm always thinking about regulatory clarity and then dealing with a lot of investors that really do care a lot about having that clarity. Not not just investors, but also operators and now we're starting to see so much more clarity

from that perspective. So, I think that's really encouraging. And then I think with Bitcoin it's just there's there's just not enough there's just not enough supply and the demand keeps growing the amount of capital that's being raised by Bitcoin treasury companies and their performance relative to you you know Micro Strategy being the best performing stock I think in the last five years is uh is obviously the best uh the best indicator there but you know just more and more demand and less supply and I think as there's more regular regy clarity, there's just going to be more demand because people that have been on the fringes are starting to see, okay, this is this is really

happening now and it continues to grow every wave. >> Where do you where do you think we are in the Do you look at market cycles and think about like where we are in the cycle? I know you've been through a few cycles before, so you've seen the bull market and the bare market and you've seen the ups and the downs. Where do you think we are right now and if you were to step back and look at this cycle? Yeah, not a you know not an expert from a markets perspective by any means but definitely do look at market cycles and I think what's different about you know what's different about this cycle I think is there is a lot of I feel like every cycle we talk about institutional adoption and that's been the narrative I

think since 2016 when I first got into crypto and that has been true to a certain extent every cycle there are more institutions playing in different ways whether it's with Bitcoin or just with digital assets in general. I think this cycle it really is actual policies and legislation that's coming in that is changing things significantly for Bitcoin for digital assets for stable coins for the whole industry. I think with with the with the clarity act also giving this delineation between securities and and commodities something that we've been talking about for a decade and now it may come to reality.

So I think it's something that is just you know we just keep it just keeps opening up the the gates for more capital to come in and more talent to come in to build in in the space. So, I think all that said, I feel like it's we're still relatively early on kind of in the in the in the bull bull market. I think there's a lot more room to go because it's not um you know, you there is that euphoria feeling, but there's a lot of fundamentals to back up why that's happening and uh and and where we can go from here.

>> Okay, let's let's talk about let's talk about Crypto Week for a second. uh because I think it is fits into this narrative you're saying around the the shift that is happening within crypto in this move to actually getting real legislation and real clarity >> and the impact of that. you you've worked behind the scenes for you you built WonderFi, one of the largest crypto exchanges in Canada, uh which was then acquired by was it a month or two months ago acquired by Robin Hood for $180 million.

>> What what's the what's the impact of something like Crypto Week? Because I think that like for us retail traders, you know, and investors, like we're not we're not behind the scenes in crypto week, you know what I mean? Like so h how does how do you view something like crypto week? How does this >> what is going to what is going to be felt? What's going to happen during this week? >> So I think about it from a from a builder founder perspective and when there's a lack of clarity around around how things are regulated, you know, am I going to go to jail if I do this? Uh and then for investors >> legitimate question though, legitimate

question. >> Legitimate questions. Like when I got into the industry it was so ICOs were were booming and I was a securities lawyer. So my whole career was around helping companies public companies raise money and it would you know it's like a four can be like a three month fourmonth process. You've got a team of lawyers, team of bankers, and all this effort goes in. And then, you know, I'm looking and seeing there's companies that are raising hundred million dollars in 10 minutes. And I'm thinking, what is going on here? And that has obviously evolved a lot. And there's been so much that has happened since since that first or you know, first or second ICO wave, depending on how you look at it. But as

a founder really I think there's a lot of people that have a lot of conviction around digital digital assets and what uh what the potential is but there are real risks and depending on what country you're in there like Canada for instance we don't need to spend our time speaking about that but I think it's it's really lagging from a regulatory standpoint and so the US taking taking the lead and saying okay we're going to solve all these key issues that have been here for the last decade and we're going to try and do it in a week I think is is really impressive. So I think that allows founders to really come to market with things they've been working on in a more open way and then it allows legacy companies, TRDFI, etc. to start making

those investments or acquisitions that they've been looking at and then it allows investors to say okay I can more properly evaluate how you know how risky this um this investment is um you know because prior to this the SEC or whatever regulator shuts the door and you know that investment goes to zero. So really I think is that flow that opens up amongst you know builders um tradfi and and in kind of investors institutions >> to me to me it's it's crypto week feels like a like political marketing to me and which is is is very important right because you know okay so what what is

crypto week it's really it's it's Trump delivering on his on his promises it's the the US house of representatives actually sitting down and saying we're going to we're going to vote on is it three crypto bills that they're going to vote on this week. Uh, so real political movement, but then like packaging it and marketing in a way that says to all of all of that gives the media a lot to talk about that says this is a priority that says and it that feels to me >> kind of like it feels like the momentum that we need on the political side because I think that there is there's you can't what's what really stood out to me was do you remember when um when

uh Paul Atkins, new SEC chair, or was it like a month ago or something like that? He tweeted, I don't know if he tweeted or if it was like the SEC's exount, but basically said, "Hey, we're now America's now open for DeFi. We're now open." And he used DeFi specifically. We're open for crypto business. And that was that was a big moment to me that really and again maybe this is more of a signal to founders and builders than it is to investors. But we need founders and we need builders in order to build great great tools and great products that will then make our assets increase and be great for investors. And so I really frame it in that sort of view is

that we >> we need that type of marketing at the political level to get the energy and enthusiasm and also the >> the shift in in honestly perspective from like crypto's a scam and all the like negative media that we've had for so many years. Um >> I don't know if you >> I feel like that's that's such a great point. the marketing and being able to package that up and say this is the message is is it's huge. And you I again we'll this is the last time we'll bring up Canada unless we need to talk about it again, but because I you know I have I have uh strong views about how Canada's regulated crypto, but it's the opposite. It's it's it's not saying we're open for business for crypto. It's

saying don't do this, don't do this, don't do this, and if you want to talk to us, it's going to take a year to get through anything. Whereas, you're right, like this this is just very clear signaling and it's in a in a really simple way so that yeah, media can pick it up and people can just see it and understand it. I think it's a great point. Selling your Bitcoin should be a last resort when you need cash. That's why there's Lein, the trusted platform for Bitcoin backed loans. You can unlock cash in as little as 18 hours with no monthly interest payments and no prepayment penalties. They've issued over 9 billion in loans and never lost a single satoshi of client funds, even during the chaos of 2022. If you're a

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Okay. So, let's let's let's shift to pump because uh it's an interesting interesting to go from the political landscape to a massive ICO that just happened over the weekend. And this feels this feels like a a a moment and and we can talk let's talk about two things. Let's talk about I would love to get your thoughts on on pump particularly and then I would love to get your thoughts on like what this what this in what this signals for you or how how you view this is this a new trend and what this means for the market. So first what's your thoughts on pop fund and and what they've done here?

>> So at first cut just seeing the amount of money that they raised in the time frame I think it was 600 million in or 500 million in 12 minutes. >> 12 minutes. Yeah. And definitely it's that deja vu moment of ICOs in 2016 or 2017. And that's really what it brought up for me was wow this is like this is happening all over again. And there were so many times where people would say and and everybody thought okay ICOs are dead and it just sort of keeps coming back in different you know different iterations.

So I think that was my first reaction. Um, I think there's obviously a lot behind the pumpf fund business in terms of um, questionable practices and things like that which I, you know, I don't necessarily have a specific view on, but I think marketwise, I think it just shows the market is heating up and people are wanting to take risk on assets. And I think the the the most recent thing prior to this was the Trump and Melania tokens and just how just how much buying there was when those got launched and how much kind of euphoria and then you know a massive dump came. But I think it just shows that people you know do want to make those bets and um and and you know bet

on these risk assets. So potentially pro most clearly I think it's a signal of where we are in the cycle which I don't I'm not saying it's we're we're at the top or nearing the top but I think it's people are seeing okay uh you know Bitcoin is ripping and the top altcoins are are doing extremely well and so let's let's take some 10% of my assets and throw it into uh you know uh look for a grand slam sort of thing. Yeah, it feels it feels like risk on season has either it's depending on the way you look at it, it's either it's it's it's begun. I think it it has we are we're either in the like the

pre-ining or it's begun. Yes. >> And it difficult to say the the thing that I struggle with is like I feel pretty good about Bitcoin from here. Bitcoin feels like it's it's up only. Maybe a little bit of, you know, volatility as always, but it feels up only. Altcoins, I'm still not in the boat that >> altcoins are are that it's full-on altcoin season yet. I think Bitcoin continues to dominate for for at least the next little while. Now, that being said, the market is very different than it was last cycle, right? So, there is opportunities for sure. I just think that like, hey, everything goes to Valhalla and everything's going to the

moon type of of end of the bull run. I don't I don't think we're in that phase. >> I agree. I I think that's a a great way to put it and it feels like we're probably thinking similar timelines in terms of when all season could happen, but again, it's going to look different. I don't think it's everything. I don't think it's rising tide, you know, brings everything up. I think the market is I you know the people are paying more close attention to what the assets are. There's obviously this sort of meme memecoin category but people are doing such deep analysis and really really understanding the whole mometics and how much reach these different assets have and now that's the metric that they're looking at as opposed to just I like the

name of this and this is where you know I'm going to put my money into it. So, I think that's what I'm seeing on that side of things. And then with some of the more kind of productive crypto assets, I do think the the bar is being raised and part of it is because you're getting more and more high-quality founders and teams that are building and it's just, you know, you're continuing to attract more talent from um you know, from top uh you know, from top tech companies into these projects. So, I think that's I think that's really encouraging to see. But I feel like we're I feel like it's going to be Bitcoin for Yeah. at least, you know, at least, you know, several more months more months here leading the charge.

>> What What do you think is when when do we get altcoin season? What's what's the setup, do you think? >> Yeah. I again, not you know, I'm don't claim to be a market expert, but I feel like the kind of end of 2025 is is sort of what I have in mind. and you know I follow a lot of different analysis and and you know look at my own factors but I think that is I think that's I think that's the time frame that I'm I'm I'm seeing what what are you thinking from your side?

>> Yeah. Um I think I can't I I I think end of 2025 early 20 26 um I think right now for the foreseeable future the big narrative is these public treasury these public company treasury strategy which obviously I want to chat about with um you being involved uh and founding XDOW but let's let's get there and but I think that's where all the liquidity goes in the short term y >> and as a result to that. I think those tokens are the ones that will do best.

Now, what's very interesting is we've gone from >> Bitcoin only basically being the treasury strategy for for years >> to to all of a sudden there being a lot of Bitcoin >> treasury companies around the world and it makes sense there will be there will be one in every country. There'll be many in every country to be honest to now there being other tokens that have treasury strategy companies as well. Ethereum's obviously the one that's getting the most attention right now. Uh but you know, I mean there's go down the list. There's uh you know, Hype has launched two in the past week. Uh so there's so many here. Um I I I want to come back to that though. I don't want

to quite go there yet. Let's just finish on Pumped Up Fund. Uh other step back from Pumped Up Fun. Do you think that like this what does this ICO sort of what what does it mean for crypto? What does it what trend does it show you? Mhm. I think that this will lead to more ICOs that are happening, more onchain um token launches or capital raises. And I think I do think even though they didn't sell into the US, UK or Canada though, you know, the the global regulatory and really the global regulatory landscape is I think always

considered in in in these in these types of um in these types of raises. And so I think it's just more onchain permissionless capital that is going to flow. Um, and I I feel like pumpf fun is kind of the yeah, leading the charge in that. So, I think you're going to see more more legitimate projects that are looking to raise uh raise capital through these types of token launches and and and maybe there's new methods that we're going to see. Like I think that was something that we've seen in the last two cycles is, you know, it was ICOs and then it was IEOS and IDOS and Dows and, you know, just just on and on. There were so many different methods that were developed and a lot of it was around changing

legislation and de-risking and things like that, but I think we might see some new ways to raise capital that, you know, we don't even know what they potentially look like yet. >> Would you buy Pump? >> I'm not very speculative. I would say uh my my two crypto holdings are Bitcoin and Tao, and that's that hasn't always been the case. like I have been a lot more speculative uh through through different cycles, but this uh yeah, kind of over the last two years, I've I've held Bitcoin since 2016 and um you know, we I'm sure we'll get into Tao later, but really discovering Tao kind of gave me this very similar philosophical roots

uh as as Bitcoin, just kind of that that essence of of tackling this this massive problem. And and so that's that's become, you know, my my largest holding. And so not a lot of room for for pumpf fun. Although I just I do love to see that's not, you know, I'm not throwing shade on on them. Like I think it's it's really amazing to see. >> Let's let's let's talk about Tao. Uh because it's so interesting that your portfolio is just Bitcoin and Tao. I don't I don't think there I can't think of another guest that would have that portfolio allocation. Uh I we don't need to talk about the Bitcoin part. Get that.

>> Fully get that. Why? >> So after Wonderfy and Robin Hood, I was really thinking about what's next and hard to ignore AI and growth potential there. So just spent more and more time, you know, understanding what was happening in the AI space. And I think I got I really got excited about it, but also very scared, just terrified of the centralization risk. And just so many of those moments where I'm thinking, okay, this is the most powerful tool that humanity may ever create. and we're just funneling all of our data and like handing it all over to to two or three

companies that so that they can build their tools, build up their tools and they get to choose who accesses this and how it's trained and how it's built. And so as I was investigating that problem, I got introduced to Bit Tensor and it really was the first thing that got me as excited as when I first found Bitcoin. And you know I mentioned this I think similar philosophical roots. So there was a lot of similarities there. Bitcoin really trying to create fair money I think is the way that I look at it. And um and then Bit Tensor trying to create fair AI. And it's definitely in its very early stages but it's it's it's

super nent but I do think that it'll become a top three crypto asset in the next two to three years. Okay. >> Um, and yeah, happy to kind of dive into why that is and what the specifics are, but that's the that's kind of what drew me into it. >> Yeah, just trying to look at where where is TA right now? If we say it's going to be a top three right now, it is sitting at is it top 50 right now or is it top 100? >> No, it should be top 50. I think it's around sitting around >> 38. 38. So, it's sitting at uh 3.8 billion market cap, 8.5 billion FDB. So, it's still it's still got quite a bit

locked up. Uh up I mean, it's been it's it's been doing it's done decently well in the past year. Up up up 55% uh in the past year. >> You say top three, that would obviously be a massive jump. You know, that would mean it goes from it's at a 3.8 billion market cap right now. If it got into the top three based on today's numbers, it would be, you know, 200 billion market cap. That would be, you know, almost a 100x from where it is right now, >> right? What what gives you that conviction?

>> So again, going back to the similarities to Bitcoin. So I think philosophically it has these similarities but then from a tokconomics standpoint I guess I look at it as Bitcoin has created you know the world's largest supercomputer and the purpose of that computer really is to create Bitcoin and to secure the network as we all know and Bitensor has taken the same tokconomics so 21 million max supply and a similar having schedule and it's trying to create an even larger supercomputer but using that to create AI. Uh and so I think again it's in the very early stages but the talent that

this ecosystem is attracting and the amount of comput and power that's already being consumed on the network and what's being the the AI outputs that are being created is is just continues to to blow my mind. Um, and so I think the, you know, the the the phrase really is proof of intelligence. And so the miners are incentivized to bring their AI models and train their AI models and compete with each other. And >> yeah, explain explain how to works.

Explain how it works for a second. So, so basically just, you know, I I know you have a a a sophisticated audience, but I guess the way the way that I've been explaining it is miners on Bit Tensor really are they're competing to create better AI. And so, as a minor, you it's not just providing compute like you do on Bitcoin or other networks. You you may have to provide compute, but you also have to bring your chops. You have to bring your intelligence. You have to bring your technical skills and you are competing to create the best model and you get ranked based on your performance and you get rewarded in tow based on your performance. So it creates this

decentralized computer network that you can point at different AI problems and all of a sudden you get hundreds of miners that are some of the top AI machine learning engineers that are competing and getting paid in real time for their performance. So it's really it's really exciting from that standpoint. And the I think we're we're definitely past a proof of concept stage. There's over 100 what are called subnets on Bit Tensor. Each subnet picks a problem to focus on. So there's every, you know, all different types of inference. There's decentralized compute subnets. There's things like deep fake detection like really kind of uh

singular focused AI problems. But each of those is growing and creating these outputs that can then be accessed through you know using TA. So that's that's sort of the I guess the the high level um overview. So you know similarities uh from a structural perspective um relative to Bitcoin, but then just kind of taking that and applying it into uh into creating this decentralized AI network. >> What would need to happen in order for TAO to get to that that that top three or to get that next leg up?

So I I think the the the thing that excites me the most about Tao is and and about Bit Tensor is that again if you create a subnet you need to create something that is is that people are going to want and people are going to use because if you don't then people won't allocate their tow it and it'll die. And so it's this real like open free market system where you need to find what AI products people want to use and then if you want to contribute to the network you need to be extremely talented and and and and work to to improve whatever that product is. And so what needs to happen for Bit Tensor to

get to that top three is there needs to be more useful applications that are being built and the network like as the network continues to grow those products will become more accessible. So I guess like a couple of couple of examples there's a subnet called Targon which is on Bit Tensor and so effectively you know everyone's worried about we talked about this earlier everybody's worried about OpenAI stealing your data or you you know you handing your data over to them and so Targon offers inference that's done in a confidential private computing environment and and then you can choose which LLM you interact with. So it's a very sort of simple concept but that you

know that's one of the most promising subnets that's um that's that's being built on Bit Tensor. And so I think as we see more re really useful products like that that are being built and more adoption of of the products that that are coming out of the network that's when we're going to start to see this um you know this this grow sort of in in in in many multiples. Did Targon or any of the other subnets do they have meaningful users when you look at the numbers? >> Yeah. So there's we're starting to get there. So I I think there's two metrics that I look at. One is are the subnets creating products that compete with centralized AI products, their centralized AI counterparts. Are you

know are they meeting that performance or exceeding it? and we're we're seeing some of the subnets start to hit those markers and and exceed them. So, I think from a performance standpoint, we're we're we're seeing that the thesis is working. Uh there's still room to grow obviously. And then I think the the second part, the second bracket really is okay, you have high performing subnets, are people using them? And you know, that's what that's what you're talking about because you can build the best product if nobody uses it doesn't matter. So you know a good example I guess targon since we're talking about it or maybe a better one is actually shoots.

So shoots is you know o open router is a non-bit tensor kind of open source product that provides inference through open- source models and I think it's the really the most widely used open-source LLM sort of product and for I I believe it's the majority of uh of of of inference that's happening through open router is actually being powered by bitensor by a subnet on bit tensor that's called shoots. to shoots.ai is the um is the the front end for that.

And so there's you know there's a massive amount of tokens that are being processed every month through this particular product. And then there's there's other consumerf facing products like uh Bitmind which is a deep fake detection product um which has consumer use. And there's a another one called Dippy which is like a character.ai AI, a decentralized version of that which has, you know, a ton of monthly users. Uh, it's I think it's one of the one of the top um apps on the app store in that category. So, you're starting to see that definitely not across the board, but it's like, you know, you're starting to see a few of these subnets really start to to take off in terms of user adoption.

>> Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. It's uh it like from from my perspective, I'm not an investor in Tao. We've talked about it a few times on the show and my very simple perspective is that AI is a massive narrative with it whether in crypto or even beyond crypto. It's a bigger narrative than crypto even and but within crypto it's shown that it is a big narrative. We did have AI agent season, you know, at the end of last year and virtuals and AI6Z and like all of these did so well uh and and have had moments where they've had comebacks and even in the last three months and it just feels like if you want to bet on if

you want to make a bet on AI within crypto, Bit Tensor feels like the bet to make like that's the simplest way to put it in my mind. And so it's, you know, not financial advice, but if you want to take a small percentage of your portfolio and you're like, "Hey, yeah, I want some upside to to AI within crypto, put put some of it, but tensor feels like a good bet at this point." Um, okay. I want to shift to to Robin Hood because uh you founded WonderFly. Give us give us the background. Okay. So, tell for our audience who isn't Canadian, doesn't necessarily know Wonderfly, give us the quick TLDDR and what is Wonderfy and then um how did the Robin Hood deal come about?

>> Yeah. Okay. So very quick, I founded WonderFi in 2021 and the reason that I started it was Canada was really struggling on regulating crypto and you had all of these different crypto exchanges that were competing for the same customers trying to be compliant and it was really difficult. And so created WonderFi, built a brand and in exchange and then found all the best operators and tech uh within Canada, consolidated them and then we became the largest uh regulated exchange in Canada within two to three years. We uh when I was CEO, we were really actively looking at expansion into the US as a next step.

What we wanted to build was something that could compete on a global scale because there was nothing in Canada doing that. And as we were looking at that US expansion, there was also US and international companies that see Canada as a growth market, but it's really expensive, complicated to enter. And so we had discussions with, you know, different there was a lot of different opportunities. Um, but Robin Hood is, you know, I could couldn't have picked a better partner because I think it's amazing to have a, you know, a fintech, uh, like a Tradfi company, you know, partner with Wonderfy and seeing what Robin Hood's doing outside of, um, the the Wonderfy acquisition, seeing what

they're doing with digital assets and crypto more broadly is it's it it's it's super exciting. So, that that's kind of the quick background on on WonderFi. Yeah, it feels like okay, let's shift to let's talk about Robin Hood now because it feels like uh what what Robin Hood is doing is a massive signal for crypto adoption in my mind. like an absolutely massive. You have one of the biggest fintexs in the world that is openly openly prioritizing crypto, openly saying that they believe that crypto and blockchain is the future of finance and then very actively like >> pulling out their their wallet and spending a ton of money on acquisitions in order to grow as quickly as possible.

and then having a crypto event what like three weeks ago in France and open and making a big announcement that they're going to launch their own L2 which was also a big a big signal to Ethereum in my mind. Uh when you look at what's your thought thoughts on Robin Hood's crypto strategy? >> Yeah, I think it I totally agree with you. I think it's massive signal and not only are they, you know, one of the largest players, but also their their product is is the best from a stock purchasing stand standpoint. I think that's that's what it comes down to. You know, everybody in the US uses Robin Hood and they're, you know, trying to bring that to Canada to to Europe, you

know, all these different places. and and then really merging, you know, to your point, launching a layer two, they they've launched tokenized equities, I think, just in Europe right now, but that is they're really trying to bridge everything together. And I I was reading on the tokenized equities part, the users in in Europe will be able to receive dividend payments directly into their app, which is >> Oh, wow. That's huge. So there, so it's really it's not just this kind of blind like, okay, let's like let's take over the world, get into every country. I feel like it's a very thoughtful plan and then partnering with Arbitum um to launch the tokenized stocks and then and then it sounds like they're

going to be working with Arbitum to launch their own layer 2. So they clearly know where the puck is going. they have the product and the user base and the cash to grow this in whatever way they want to, which is really exciting. And then they're and then I feel like it's also, you know, I feel like I'm just I'm tooting their horn too much. But the the the other part is like they're not um they they're do they're doing it in like smart thoughtful phased approaches too which I think is is really smart because from an execution standpoint I think if they had gone right out of the gate to launch their own layer 2 to launch the tokenized stocks maybe there like like there's more potential execution risk there but I think they have this staged approach

which they've developed which is is very thoughtful and will work. Uh so yeah really really exciting to see and then the other part is crypto staking um which I think they've launched with US customers starting with with Ethan Soul and um so just another kind of exciting product uh to see. >> How big could Robin Hood get do you think? >> A lot bigger feel it feels like they could be the biggest finance company in the world someday. like it feels like they are on a and and and I get the thing I always have to say when when we talk about Robin Hood is like the they've got a they've got a stain on their reputation

as a result of what happened with GameStop and there is certainly still a lot of there's a lot of their customers who got really badly burnt as a result of that. Um >> but I think you got to step back and look beyond that. uh like I'm not going to make comments on, you know, that situation and what was right and what was wrong, >> but when you see the the path that they're on, the way they have dominated the US and they're really only in the US. They're not in other countries yet, but then they're using crypto to I think what I can see is they're going to get into other

countries pretty quickly because of crypto, right? If they had gone the more Tradfi route, it would take them a lot longer to get into these other countries or cost a lot more money probably. It' be time and money. But it feels like the crypto is going as a result of blockchain, they're going to be able to move very quickly in in their growth and offer these new products. I don't know. I I feel I we're we're very at Milkro, we've been bullish on Robin Hood for a while and recommended our our pro members purchase uh Hood back uh in in April, which ended up being a great buy.

Um, so I I'm a bit I'm tooting my own horn a little bit here on on my own beliefs, but what do you think? >> Yeah, I know. I agree. I think exactly what you said and and then they have those opportunities and they're moving on them very quickly. So I think that's which which I think it see you know I don't know the company that well personally um like the the founders etc but it just seems it seems as though that's part of their DNA or really part of really part of the yeah of the core principles of the company and so I think it's it's really seems to you it really seems to all be coming together so I'm yeah I'm I'm very bullish uh as well on on them.

>> Amazing. Uh, all right. We're gonna have to cut it here. I I do I feel like we might need to do a part two to talk more about Treasury, the Treasury company strategy and XTAW and what you're doing there because we could do a whole episode on that. We didn't have a ton of time to dive into that. But Kari, been an absolute pleasure to get you on the show today. >> Likewise. Thanks so much, Jay. >> Thanks so much as always for listening in everybody. Truly appreciate your time. I've got to give you all a deep bow of respect because we recently hit 20,000 subs on YouTube and that's all because of you tuning in every day. I can't thank you guys enough. I have to remind you as always that none of today's episode is financial advice. I'm not your investment advisor. Cario is

not your investment advisor. You should do your own research and if you need help, you should speak to a financial representative. You could also think about checking out Milro Pro. And finally, I've got to give a shout out to our partners over at Nexo have just partnered with the DP World Tour, one of the leading golf tournaments in the world, 45 tournaments across four continents, and they're going to have the Nexo Championship debuting this August in Scotland. So keep an eye out for that because this is one of those things that feels very marketing talk, but I get super excited because when you think about sports and the crossover with the attention that it has and how

many leading global brands are sponsoring massive sports tournaments, it's pretty exciting to see crypto brands sponsoring large sports tournaments as well. So hat tip to Nexo, way to go, guys. Thanks as always for doing what you guys do in the space. Thanks for tuning in y'all. Have a wicked awesome day. We'll see you back again tomorrow. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one. There's also a link in the description to our free 5minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh. And if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game, we're going to also leave a link for Milk Road Pro.

You get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying. This is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto. One final note, this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice. Investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose. Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome