The Binance Listing Premium, Jito’s TipRouter, and VectorFun | Analyst Round Table

Transcript

think as as research analysts when we're dilig diligen an investment thesis it might be highly technical or highly fundamental but of course like event-driven catalysts can matter a lot and um what the data shows is that the event Catalyst of a binance listing can pretty materially and consistently lead to favorable returns Today's Show is powered by scale we'll hear more about them later but first let's dive into today's episode nothing said on zerox Research is a recommendation to buy or sell Securities or tokens this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views expressed by anyone on the show

are solely our opinions not Financial advice pachu Ryan and our guests May hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed hey guys welcome back to another episode of ox research uh before we start the show uh we need your help Ox research is conducting an audience survey to help us get a better picture of who are listening are and what you want to see from the show um think of this as something like an annual review what do you like about the show what could we improve on um and if you want to contribute visit the link in our show notes below to help us fill out the survey and help us build a better Ox thanks transitioning on from that today I'm joined by Carlos and Luke uh from the research team um Ryan cash flows Conor was too busy he could not grace us

with his presence today unfortunate um Carlos I know has some maybe some noise issues in the background hopefully we don't get too interrupted by those today um how are we feeling today guys the the last week or two have honestly felt like months really um with the way that the markets have been acting um the new admin um the Trump admin coming in and sort of like all the different announcements we had you know the um deep seek scare from a week ago and then now this this past weekend we've had sort of like the Tariff scare um and and sort of maybe V reversal from that um how are we feeling about the markets now yeah I mean absolutely like I think the past month

has felt like a six months it's been very volatile like on January 19 Trump launched his own meme coin so a reached $291 dollar per token like Bitcoin touch 109 and just like three days ago we were all doom posting on the timeline thinking it was all over like uh just the the contrast between like the sentiment two weeks ago like to this weekend is absolutely uh like amazing to me and then I think like the market is starting like to navigate this macro uncertainty like we're we're all

becoming macro experts again like and then like just with the tariffs and and and what it could entail like for broader markets not just for crypto yeah it kind of gives me flashbacks to the 2017 era Market um particularly for equities where we'd see incredible Vol spikes kind of moving just off of trump tweets as it related to tariffs and trade Wars and whatnot um what was particularly interesting to see was just the dispersion and returns um across Bitcoin and the alt sector uh where Bitcoin held its recent range um and

didn't make a new low um we saw a lot of alts basically retrace their whole move to the the pre-election lows um with that Bitcoin dominance put in a 10% candle to the upside um printing in new hi cycle Highs at about 64 and a half perc um and some of these alt candles like SOI for example put in at a 50% intraday range so while the sell-off was like certainly concerning Sunday night um the extent to which we see incred like huge lower Wicks and the market not

letting these assets spend much time uh in these downside ranges is constructive of the idea that that there's still a bid beneath the market yeah it's a great point I think um um some of the comments from both of you guys really highlight a lot of the sentiment that I think we've seen in the space lately is that um Bitcoin has really just been hanging out it it seems like right it's gotten into this range and it's just been chilling here for what over a month at this point since since um you know rising up off the election um meanwhile you know everyone and their favorite alts um the volatility has been maybe difficult to contend with during that time um so it's

just Dynamic I think people who are here from maybe a prior cycle are completely not used to this you know if you were hoping for an ALT cycle it's not exciting to see you know Bitcoin dominance pull a 10% you know Wick to the upside uh on a move like this so that is tough to work with um I think like if we reh highlight and go back to you know just a week or two ago now um and look at the Trump token launch there is something interesting kind of coming out of that is that um it had a massive impact on activity and trading volume on salana a lot of that has been sort of retraced already like there was a bit of a trump bump um and most of that has has kind of disappeared already from from at least trading activities stable coin

Supply still looks pretty strong um but there was something else that we that we kind of noticed in this um Madness of the of the Trump token weekend was uh I believe this would have been during the Melania token launch actually where the the goo um engine had issues congestion issues and and essentially like went down for a period of time um the data team Dan Smith and and some others found some interesting information about um different validators running different clients on salana um we saw in in this bottom chart here um the fired dancer and then the salono and then the Agave clients and how quickly they regained or sort of like you know were um returned

back to their normal throughput in TPS um following that event um and fire dance the fire dancer clients or I guess it would be Franken dancer at this point in time but um sort of pre-fire dancer clients um seem to have you know that sort of like best response to that event um so we might be seeing some hints of like the early performance or upside um or improvements made to that client um although I think we're still waiting on like a concrete timeline I'm sure I think people are are hoping to see you know fire answerer go live sometime this year um I don't think that's confirmed but it's interesting to to sort of see this sta here and some some early hints at least at some improvements you guys

have any thoughts there yeah I guess like I have two thoughts like the first is just how crucial jeto has become for the F for a functioning salana Network you see that they had like 3 hours of degradation like they went offline for 3 hours and then median and priority fees just spiked like crazy like there were users paying like I think Dan Smith said like $50 for a priority fee like it's absolutely insane and then for me it just highlights like the Reliance that this ATA network has on the G on the Jos ala like validator client and like on this like out of protocol tip mechanism

for transaction inclusion and then the other thing that I would highlight is like despite like these issues that we see like on the chart below like Solana is still operating like a maybe a reduced total throughput but like it's at a rate not possible on on other chains right like even if we have like a reduced throughput here like it's still like no other chain could have handled like the Trum launch as well as like the salana network did yeah at large it's it's pretty clear that while salana is hosting some of the highest performance um there's still there's still room for

improvement and as they've been iterating with whether it be fire dancer Agave or the new scheduler um Network performance can continue to increase and we can see just a more performant venue for all this onchain activity yeah Fair points I I think you're you're definitely spot on there Carlos at least in terms of of blockchains that that get used heavily today like base the Bas TPS sort of like limitations are up in the low hundreds today so this throughput would be like inconceivable um but you know they're obviously scaling I think it's probably a maybe an open question as to whether

like something like an aptose or a s can handle this I just don't know that we've seen the relative amount of demand um to drive that much activity on those chains but you know the the sort of like testing and capabilities um through you know the sort of expected throughput of those chains uh might be able to weather this storm but it's unclear right we just I don't think we've seen that much consistent aggregate demand um on those chains yet this episode is sponsored by scale scale has differentiated itself from other layer ones by offering users a network of gas-free interoperable evml ons where the user experience comes first explore the gas-free ecosystem at scale.

Spacey and follow their Journey on X at scale Network to learn more about the gas-free architecture and growth of the scale ecosystem visit the scale research Hub at scale. space resesarch this episode is brought to you by Ledger the global leader in digital asset security celebrating 10 years of innovation Ledger Remains the most secure Hardware wallet for your crypto and logins trusted by 7 million users and securing 20% of the world's digital assets follow the link in today's show notes to grab your Ledger now I think this plays in nicely to um a recent topic that you've dived into Carlos is the um introduction of introduction of this jto tip router um fee distribution um that they've they've just announced and have gone

into so um I'd love if you can give us like a quick overview and we can dive into the specifics like what what does this mean for jeto what does this mean for salana going forward right so like just taking a a step back right like when users want to include a trans a transaction in the network at the same times as other users they essentially want to outbe each other and that gives rise like to Priority Fe uh or what we call competition for contentious transactions right uh what jeta did is that they developed like a paral a parallel auction mechanism on Solana where bit where users like bid tips in order to secure additional transaction inclusion guarantees and so

like on Solana you have like priority fees which are like in protocol and then you have like jeta TS which are out of protocol uh tips generally related to like me and that kind of stuff and so if you look at like Salas rev like uh 55% of that is composed of jeto tips which is huge because like in the past month solena has had more like $500 million of of of rev or real economic value which means like jeta tips are north of $260 million in the past 30 days and up until now the distribution of these tips was done manually via an offchain

process uh and essentially jeto just announced the release of tip router which will uh basically handle the distribution of the stps in a programmatic manner instead of doing like uh manually via offchain process uh the biggest beneficiary of this like change is definitely the jeto da and jeto stakers because like previously uh jeto Labs used to take like a 5% fee on all of jeto tips as a block Builder fee and now the economies have completely changed with tip router charges a flat 3% fee on all jeta tips and that 3% fee

is distributed as you can see in this chart like 2.7% goes to the jeto Dow treasury uh 15 basis point goes to the jto bolt reaker and another 15 basis points goes to the jtool uh resters in turn like both jtool bolt and Jet bolt stakers like provide security to the node consensus network is essentially like the reaking product of jeto and then the jeto labs team reduced their take rate from 5% to 3% so essentially now the aggregate fee on jeta tips goes from like 5% to

6% so U I know that sounds like a lot so like if you have like any questions uh please stop me there yeah Carlos I've got a few so um pre report it looks like 44% in annualized real yield to jto vault stakers which is obviously like an incredibly attractive divid dividend or cash flow carry on that POS position so do you think we see a lot more J get staked or do you think uh the market value of jto will will rise a lot with this to price that yield lower yeah absolutely I think we'll see

a lot of jeto staked on these bolts over the next few weeks initially there was a cap like before the T rouder went live so that kind of limited Jet's growth there uh when I released these note uh I believe there was about $1 million worth of jeto locked into these bols and due to the sheer amount of like jeta tips and the network then that meant that the yield was so high right uh so over the following weeks I would expect a decrease in in this taking yield do do you think there's any Downstream impacts to just generalized onchain activity as a result of this change or is

everyone is essentially you know transaction submitters basically users it doesn't seem to change too much for them but um you know behavior from validators and others like does does this cause any other changes that you're thinking of um it's a great question Lucas bruther who is the CEO like and co-founder of jeto just put out a very long sstack post uh talking about the impact of the T router release like on the brother Solen validator Network and essentially this dives into other topics like you have uh cd96 which as we've talked about in previous uh episodes it will get rid of the burn on the priority fee and what

that means is that uh validators will maximize their revenue and Dan Smith has previously LED that seim d96 should only be approved if CD 123 is approved simultaneously because current there is no way for like validators to share uh priority fees with stakers the same way they do with issuance and so what Luc has proposed is essentially now that we have TI router to like distribute jetto tips automatically why don't we use the same standard to distribute priority fees and this has never been thought before and it would be absolutely Monumental for

jeto if validators actually adopt uh T router as like the standard distribution mechanism for priority fees as well because it it means like jeto is not just earning like 6% on the jto tips it's basically earning 6% like assuming the same fee structure this maintain on all of salana R because they would also be Distributing all of the jeta tips all of the priority fees via TP router but like this is uh partly partly speculation because we don't know like the exact uh fee terms that that would that implementation would have but it's definitely an interesting case where uh

there is a lack of an impr protocol way to distribute like the priority fees to stakers and then there comes jeto with an kind of independent solution that may be adopted by the rest of the validators in the network yeah that could be interesting I guess if we jump back over to the to the RV chart like and you and you think about that breakdown I mean I think you highlighted it but like you know we look at close to 5050 in terms of like aggregate jeto tips versus priority fees so it would be interesting like if if that were a future outcome to basically see you know that their revenue stream from this sort of fee router essentially get doubled potentially yeah yeah the issue is like cd96 is second in line to be activated

uh based on the Agave uh version to 2.1 uh so the release is almost imminent but then the problem is that uh simd 123 is just months away uh in terms of work so it seems like a better alternative to distribute it through teep router than to just have nothing at all great points love the overview um and appreciate the context on that one I think uh we're going to we're going to highlight another uh recent report we've got Luke on as well to chat about um his thoughts about how binance spot listings impact um you know token prices and and

performance of of tokens so I guess Luke if you want to give like some kind of background and intro and and and dive into that one a little bit yeah absolutely so in recent recent months um just watching markets anecdotally we've pretty consistently seen large repricings on tokens when they receive a spot listing on binance just to name a few like drift Orca ACX v um some of these assets repriced one to 200% higher on the day that that news was released so obviously like binance is the Premier Global crypto exchange over a trillion

dollars in monthly spot trading volumes and 35 % market share amongst centralized exchanges but seeing this meta kind of continuously play out with each listing it got me pretty curious to see how how valuable exactly is a spot listing on binance to a token's market price and whether or not we could observe any Alpha in in this sort of theme um I think as as research analysts when we're dilig diling an invest thesis it might be highly technical or highly fundamental but of course like event-driven catalysts can matter a lot

and um what the data shows is that the event Catalyst of a binance listing can um pretty materially and consistently lead to favorable returns so if we jump into some of these slides here um at large what we see across the board is that a binance listing does support favor favorable returns um across all time frames um yeah so at t0 the median repricing is 26% the average is 63% um which are great returns and then looking out t plus 7 t plus 30 days from the listing uh returns continue to be

positive but if we look a little bit deeper at the next slide is we can not discrepancy in the returns between assets that perform their tge on binance compared to assets that tge well before a binance listing and then pursue that listing later down the road so what we can see for assets that were not listed on binance at tge is when they get that listing the median repricing at t0 is 44% and an average of 100% And you can compare this to the day of the listing um for assets listed at

TG on binance and it's 0% and 20.7% so if you're positioned in a token that is uh fortunate or lucky enough to get this Catalyst your t0 repricing is an incredibly attractive return um which concurrently suggests that like these spot tokens that have yet to receive a listing are basically trading at 30 to 50% discounts to their market value if they were to receive that Catalyst um what's perhaps more interesting or taking the conclusions a bit further is

that if you look at the returns across all these time frames t0 t plus 7 t+ 30 the most favorable return s are exhibited in the t0 time frame um and concurrently the probability of positive returns from the event decreases from 90% at t0 to about 70% at t+ 30 so with the most favorable returns at t0 it basically suggests that uh if you are lucky enough to get this repricing the day of the listing is a highly favorable opportunity for profit taking on a shortterm Time

Horizon as both your expected returns and the probability of positive returns um will decrease in time and in contrast I think an important takeaway too is that um for project teams it's perhaps uh a disservice to their Public Market investors to pursue a tge on binance as this basically prevents your public Market investors from um receiving this Catalyst uh we can see that um like the median returns for binance listing t+ 7 t plus 30 are actually negative if they tge on binance so it's most favorable

for public market investors to have the opportunity to take a position acquire exposure basically buy the asset at a discount to its Finance listing value before giving your public market investors that Catalyst yeah it's great to see some concrete data around this I would imagine like a lot of these ideas are maybe things that people maybe have as like loose ideas in their head you know I think people generally have that thought that you know the a binance listing is a big deal um and May and maybe it's you know hey it's it's the liquidity event it's a sell the news type of thing you know you get that boost and and maybe you want to um capitalize on that um so I think it's

great to see some data data around this because I think generally that's just sort of been like a colloquial like thing that people bring up and mention um but you don't often see the the actual analysis around it which is great to see yeah I think it's certainly doesn't serve as a comprehensive investment thesis for any given token but it's material enough that it should be a component of a broad investment thesis to understand whether or not you have that potential Catalyst on the horizon but then also to understand that it could be an opportunity to buy the rumor and sell the news and the news at t0 does demonstrate to be the most

opportune time for profit taking on a short-term time Horizon absolutely I think yeah it's a very interesting analysis and I think the discrepancy in result makes sense like you can kind of Reason through it and justify it as the tokens that were not listed that at tge like these are probably projects that are leaders in their verticals and then they saw significant onchain demand and then binance saw the need to list them right whereas projects listed at tge are probably like just pre-launch uh they probably have to pay some fees to finance in order to list on their exchange and so like there's sort of like a selection bias issue here where

you can see like on average probably not in every case but on average the project that were not listed at tge probably have a higher quality than those who were listed at at the Inception yeah great points around um I'd Wonder as well I'm I'm assuming and I think you limited your analysis to like utility tokens project tokens here um I'd almost Venture bet that we' maybe see some slightly different Dynamics for like meme coins or commet of coins that end up getting listings on exchanges as as well um it it might be even more um in the in the direction of being like a mass sort of like liquidity event um kind of sell the news opportunity as you

know they don't have you know you don't have fundamental buyers of of meme coins right there's no revenues so um great data any any last key takeaways on this one um before we jump along okay I guess I'll throw in a point here that um for the longest time like you know the large tier one centralized exchanges have they've kind of been like you mentioned that um you know that symbol of prestige for token and to get a listing there has been a a big meaningful thing but um it has actually been interesting to see a slight change in that Trend perhaps um you know lately we've seen coinbase kind of talking about you know we need to modify our

listing process we're not we're not actually catching things early enough um I know last year as well uh binance started talking about you know looking for things within the community at smaller market caps or that are like gaining attention and you know they may have listed some more questionable you know Meme assets um on a more frequent basis but we have seen a little bit of like a shift in that Trend um that has been potentially driven by like this increase in like consumer social based like traction around around memes and like just um kind of like non-utility trading activity um and that does lead into our next topic which is around um vector. fun and like social trading apps

hey everyone we'd like to give a special shout out to the sponsors of today's episode scale scale is built different unlike other layer ones scale is offering users a network of gas-free interoperable evml ons where user experience comes first scale operates like the AWS infrastructure model where developers pay for space in the network in skl tokens to validators essentially scale has chain fees and not gas fees this allows for free transactions on scale and has saved 46 million users over 9 billion in gas fees explore the gas free ecosystem at scale. space ecosystem and follow their Journey on X at scale Network visit the scale research Hub to learn more about the gas free architecture and growth of the ecosystem that's scale dospace resarch Ledger is the global

leader in digital asset security trusted by 7 million users in securing 20% of the world's digital assets in recent years Ledger has built a comprehensive ecosystem of products and services making ownership more secure and accessible for everyone Ledger's newest devices Ledger stacks and Ledger Flex introduce the world's first secure touch screens making it easier and safer to manage your transactions and assets alongside Ledger stacks and Ledger Flex they have also launched The Ledger security key app offering a safer alternative to traditional passwords and enhancing your digital security follow the link into Today's Show notes to get started with Ledger today there was a a pretty big announcement I would say from the tensor Foundation who um have the .

trade or the nft trading platform on salana um that team has over the past few months you know recently pivoted into into building vector. fun which is like a socialized trading app you know you could think of telegram trading bot apps um but adding an additional like additional social features on top of that so um Beyond just you know swapping memes there's also you know posts it's tied to your you know your your public Twitter account um or or private Twitter account but T tied to your socials um can create groups and trade make trades and like comment on trades um with friends or members of those groups um and then users that share trades like they they call them broadcasts in the app but you know if you broadcast trades

or share links to tokens um and other users use those to trade tokens the the sort of shareer or referer of that um trade or that token gets a a kickback of the fees um of the trading fees from the users that kind of act on that so um some some similar mechanics to what we've seen you know telegram trading Bots employ some of the same mechanics to like sort of Drive the drive growth of the platform convince you know their early users to get other people on boarded um because they get a cut of those fees but um this announcement of sending uh half of net revenues from the the vector. fun app to the tensor protocol and then therefore the tensor token um is a pretty big Revelation um if we look at just nft trading volumes

um this is for salana specifically but um tensor is included there they've really been in Decline since last year there was a bit of there was quite a bit of excitement early early last year in 24 um around nft trading we even saw it with like you know Bitcoin nfts ordinals things of that nature as well um there was a little bit of a bump here at the end of at the end of 24 as well but basically they've been in sort of like a a secular decline while trading activity on salana has been basically up and to the right during this same time period um so it's interesting to see them um this tensor team transition to a trading app um and we have a dashboard as well that I'm going to

share from at blockworks research um that highlights activity on the vector app um and gets into the revenues that are getting kicked back to the tensor token now um so commented a little bit earlier on this Trump bump and you can see that in a lot of the charts right the their trading volumes daily trading volumes had gone from somewhere in the ballpark of of 5 to 10 million prior to prior to the Trump token launch quickly jumped up to the the 20 mil range um and we've returned back to that you know low five um four to five million range um like a lot of other trading apps have done um but the thing I want to highlight here is that this net revenue

DET tensor now from Vector is that um in essence 35% of total trading fees um are now getting kicked back to tensor token um so these uh this total revenue number is on the order of like upwards of of 10 million a year annualized if we just think about um the prior 30 days which may not be the right comparison now if this if this Trump effect is going to is going to cool off here um but given that their their prior sort of business model was entirely based on nft trading um it's a significant boost to tensor um the token tensor the protocol um as I I don't think the forward-looking prospects for you know just nft trading alone was was going to be enough to kind

of keep them going um some of the risks here to keep in mind though is that when we look at the tensor Supply there is a large unlock coming here in early March um for insiders in the team it's on the order of like 120 million tokens um so that's a massive Cliff unlock and then at following that point we get into the sort of highest rate um of token unlocks going forward um so over the next year like we're looking at this T1 T plus1 market cap we're looking at basically a double from the current the current circulating Supply um so that's something to look out for but I think just generally the kind of ongoing you know Trend in activity that we've seen um of you know trading apps that have

been gting gaining momentum like if we look at if we think about Photon and and bulex and these other telegram trading Bots um they've been a massive draw and they've and they've been absolutely printing on fees so at the the very least it seems like this tensor team like they are Keen to sort of being Nimble and and you know rotating into like a new Direction um that they think might have you know better better potential upside for you know the protocol as a whole that's that's awesome I'm just curious like you said 35% of fees are going back to tensor holders right is that via buyback mechanism or they like just Revenue are going to the treasury controlled by

tensor holders how does it work yeah in this case it's those fees goes to go to the treasury so I think the the way that this breaks down essentially is that you know Vector earns trading fees they take you know roughly 1% on trading fees like a lot of consumer trading apps do today um roughly 35% of that or roughly 30% of that is kicked back to users in the form of you know the referral fees and other other sort of referral rebates that they have um baked into the app and then that sort of like remaining 70% of total fees is split 50/50 um half goes to you know the labs team and then the other half goes to the the treasury for the tensor protocol I'm curious Danny so tensor first launched nft Marketplace and the

token tge at about a billion dollars fdv on like pretty poultry revenues but now they have this new product Vector which is uh printing fees multiples of the Legacy nft Marketplace um I'm curious why you think they didn't launch another token for vector. fund and perhaps use some of the fdv to incentivize activity from users yeah it's a good point um I don't know that I have a good reason for why they didn't do a second token other than the fact that I think like historically getting into like multi- token models for um like an

ecosystem of projects or apps I don't think those have tended to do well in aggregate that's just like my anecdotal thought there but I think historically when you look at like two token or like multi- token models um I think you tend you would probably tend to end up with just like General underperformance and it adds confusion to the sort of overall model um in this case the the the angle that they've gone with is recently they they had the season 4 tensor airdrop um and users who claimed that within the vector fun app got like a bonus um like a bonus allocation of tokens so it seems like they're basically trying to um you know redirect users and like get them

onto this new platform that they think really has has stronger legs going forward um than tensor and rather than sort of like upheave everything that had been built prior um just like keep on with the existing token and and unlocks and um and and move forward and ship which um arguably might might be the better direction right like if we started again at Day Zero and um with new brand new unlocks and more Supply you know you know Meed to the team essentially um I I don't know if that would be viewed in the same positive L light yeah I I agree all that makes a lot of sense like while they potentially could have done another token at billion doll FTV two tokens and up just looking

like a cash grab um and leads to confusion within community and and what you're building so it's nice seeing them turn value from their product Suite to one token on that mission 100% I I I do feel like we see this um I mean you think back even to the Trump launch right like people saw the Trump token and then they saw the Millennia token they saw hints about you know the baron token people talking about you know World Liberty Financial um I think a lot of that and he's had other previous launches prior of that right different nft Collections and you know you can buy Trump watches um I don't think the community views that in a positive light I think it's it really begins to look more like grift rather

than um you know like a sort of serious team that's building a meaningful product so um I would guess like maybe from a a reputation standpoint a credibility standpoint this this seems I think it probably it gives them a little bit more of a seriousness in terms of you know we've already have the token with our unlocks and we can just build this new app and and drive the fees to it I I think continuing on on this trend though the like social trading apps have really become like a big a big topic and like growing sort of part of the industry obviously like telegram trading Bots have have continued to grow those things print cash but we're we've seen more attempts at like you know friend Tech like apps

there was tribe. Ron there was that clout cloud. app um we we just saw recently there was this flunch launch um this flunch app launch on uh I think on bass using like something of a pump fun like design um but they've integrated univ V4 Hooks and they have like some some more interesting like tokenomics baked into the the model here for like launching and trading tokens um and I think the general gist is that creators can launch tokens and then can Define um like a certain amount of the fees from trading those things that either go to the Token itself as a buyback or basically turn you know some portion has fees to like um the creators or the or

the the protocol and then another that like some portion that can go to the Token itself as a buyback rather than fees just like entirely going to like the pump fund team um in their example I'm curious do you guys have any thoughts like where we might see like social I think there was a big sort of like you know excitement around social fi as a category um and friendch really did not pan out um and even some of these newer apps like they maybe had excitement for a day or a weekend um but those don't seem to last but like just generalized like trading of meme coins has has seemed to be pretty pretty resilient do you guys have thoughts about like how we can how teams might

further socialize just the basic aspects of trading um to to keep themselves you know going forward yeah I think we'll increasingly see like Innovation around the lp mechanism for meme coins like we saw this meta where you'd launch a meme coin to either crowdfund some initiative um whether it's donation for someone's cancer treatment um or giving a huge percentage of the supply to Zack xpt and while those models can effectively like crowdfund large sums of capital for a certain Endeavor implicit in it is that

a huge percentage of the float is going to get dumped for that end so I think we're going to increasingly see like the lp get monetized as a way as being the the way to fund whatever that common good or initiative is um I think one such model is like pump. science where the LPS that LP fees that acrew from the mcoin trading volumes end up being used to fund science experiments for longevity research um ultimately I feel like that's higher expected value for participants in the game where they can speculate on the up and down of the meme

uh without the implicit um need for the uh the end party to rug a large percentage of the float I think this is a great example of what you're really highlighting here is um and just mentioned like so flunch they're saying they um and like you mentioned this this opens up like it's it's more of those

sort of financial games like under the hood around you know now that the liquidity is earning some value like what can we do with earnings from the liquidity it you know can we pay the team without having to take fees from users can we you know allow for buybacks on the individual tokens um it opens up a lot of different like Styles and rebrands of this game I guess Luke would that be enforced like at a protocol level or like a token level like I'm just imagining right if there's like a donation meme to X or Y celebrity or whatever like these people may may not be like experts on the matter and they just like they may just like sell their tokens like what is there an actual way like to enforce this to to

happen yeah it's really project by project of course and how they implement it I wouldn't expect celebrities um to be particularly Adept at innovating uh the lp smart contract logic um that being said I believe like the the lp code for the pump. science um tokens are they're not the pump. fund default they're they're built um out of the pump off fun protocol to basically like custom architect the fee logic to acrw the lp yield um outside of the lp position so adjacent to the burnt LP

position to a venue that can then sell the fees to fund any any particular initiative that makes a lot of sense and like do you think like regulatory Clarity impacts any of this like at all like two weeks ago we saw like David saxs mentioned like nfds and memec coins are both like Collectibles and they're not they're not like Securities under like the SEC law do you think like eventually like eventually people will try to game the system right and like use these types of like mecoin mechanisms to their advantage and just it's inedible that bad actors like come to the scene like do you think uh

there's going to be some like sort of like regulation around meme coin launches or like legal liabilities yeah so most meme coins don't look like Securities there's no expectation of profit you in uh the Endeavors of a common good common Enterprise um that being said like pump and dump schemes uh can still apply and to the extent you're putting out you know false information um to artificially inflate the price of some instrument um I still think mcoin creators can be liable for for pump and dump

schemes yeah I think I think on the other side of that equation like there's also this future where we're we're seeing this gradual shift of you know it used to be all animal memes and now we're getting to like commemorative tokens about people or companies um we might see as like the regulation gets kind of cleaned up and and pushed out um we might see that Trend all the way to the to the point of basically launching utility tokens via these platforms um assuming it's clear you know given regulations around it um I think for the longest time right it's it's been all memes because like you know they kind of have to be you can't uh you can't promise utility and and not be scared of the SEC coming after you um but that

could change and we could see you know something like a pump or a similar platform like go after just generalized token launches for anybody not just uh not just these degens but it could be for serious teams as well well uh I guess coming up like there's some interesting things coming like new chains bar chain has just announced um their main net is going to to launch on the 6th um we're still waiting for like more news from some other chains like monad is still TBD um the mega eth guys are still building um hyper evm like still waiting for some updates there I'm curious your guys thoughts like bar chain has been one that's like been around for a while and it's felt like are they ever actually

going to ship this thing um so it's been I don't know if it's exciting or just like more of like a finally um to get news that it's actually coming out um I know the the boo sort of like deposits are in the billions um it's giving me a little bit of like blast Vibes in terms of like hey deposit your eth and and whatnot for a while before he launched the chain uh do you guys have any strong feelings like going into this launch it's it's it should go live the day this episode Co comes out so if you want to have any hot takes here um before bear chain drops yeah my my mild take is it's it's certainly seems to be like one of the most hyped launches for a new chain that I think also in turn has the most

room to disappoint um and it's unfortunate to say that um that being said like yeah there's a lot of deposits showing interest in moving to the chain Farming airdrops Farming yields then concurrently that crowds out and dilutes any expected yield I can get for moving my my deposits over there and I'm not too interested in locking up some deposits for duration to clip a pretty poultry coupon um from any yielder airdrop so I'm not I'm not a I'm not averse to going over there and farming it but I kind of need to see it actually

go live and see what see what gets me going to actually put some money in it yeah I totally agree with Luke like I would just like wait and see what's actually on the Chain after it launches and then see if something interests me but as of right now yeah it seems like it's too hyped and like when something's so hyped like it's it's meant to disappoint yeah I think that's fair the one thing that I think is interesting about the Bara chain approach um that we're not seeing from any of the other sort of like maybe soon to launch or or early stage projects is that um there's sort of like a notable lack of a focus on like being a high throughput chain

whereas if you look at the monads the hyper evm the mega eths it's all of these are trying to like compete in this world of you know lots of users lots of transactions like be really fast um lots of throughput um bar chains go in a completely different direction right it's like um different liquidity games like earn you know earn yield on your on your deposits um things of that nature that are sort of like baked into the protocol um so yeah I guess we'll see I think you're definitely right Luke it's it's tough to look at like the amount of deposits today and think that like you have some Edge by you know D dripping some extra cash in there yourself um but I guess we'll see when it launches like maybe there could still be some

interesting opportunities when it goes live if there are pools or other things to to get involved with and farm um but we'll just have to see and uh we'll we'll find out here when this one goes live um awesome I think that was a great up guys any uh any big takeaways or or maybe just like things we're excited about going into uh the next couple weeks and months anything interesting that we're looking at um that we've been getting excited about at large I think 2025 regulatory climate you're going to continue to see protocols turn on fee switches redistribute cash flows to token holders and those protocol tokens that look just like equities are going

to get priced more in line as such so have uh jto tip router um T tensor cash flows a umbrella and buy and redistribute programs going to go live soon um so ultimately it's nice to see that like these Funny Money governance tokens can actually get some cash flows and the value in turn with that yeah I totally agree with that I'm also interested to see like the most recent proposals are just like buyback mechanisms to ACR value back to token holders I'm genuinely like curious to see if any of these protocols will Implement a fee switch where the B crew looks more like

a dividend where the like the stakers of the token actually get some of the cash flows and it's not be a buyback mechanism and if there's any like impact on the value of the token itself like the way they distribute the the value back to the holders great points I think um certainly like looking forward I think there are some solid Tailwinds just generally um for the industry to be to be excited about it might not result in anything material in you know the coming weeks or even months but longer term like it's I think from a a regulatory and and sort of um you know incoming legislation perspective it it we do seem to be in a in a very very

positive period going forward hopefully you know just given the the the admin stance and um many of the folks involved with the admin today um and their their attitudes towards the space so that's been great to see um but yeah than I appreciate you guys coming on today this was a great app um great to dive into your thoughts and thesis around um some different projects today and uh we will see all of you guys next time [Music]