The best high-return, low-risk portfolio in 2025 with the Milk Road PRO team

Transcript

[Music] GM good morning welcome to the milk Road show The Daily crypto show that keeps you cool calm and collected when the markets are in a mood I'm your host Jay Hamilton and guess what it's Saturday why am I coming at you on a Saturday we don't usually publish a show on a Saturday well we are now every Saturday from now on we are going to give you guys the milk Ro Pro research meeting now this meeting did happen earlier in the week so if you're a pro member you get this earlier in the week but you know what we also got to give it to you guys for free because so much of what comes out of this meeting every week with Kyle Martin Adrian and myself it's just pure Alpha it's pure goodness and I want you guys to have it in today's

episode we talk about what if you were going to build your portfolio from scratch right now it's 2025 you want to build your portfolio from scratch what would you do what would you put in it we ask and we each answer that question we also asked the question what did we learn from the big selloff this past week specifically we look at AI what was the impact in AI are we still bullish on AI tokens and we also talk about how AI Innovation is likely going to change Tech valuations both stocks and crypto and what that means for markets as a whole before we jump in do me a favor subscribe to the show if you're watching on a Saturday you're feeling good it's the weekend the Super Bowls on tomorrow hit that subscriber like button if

you're feeling the Good Vibes also if you are are a crypto company or a crypto Media company we want to partner with you we are growing and we want to involve more great companies that we believe in get you in front of our audience and help you grow too so please reach out hit us up on Twitter or wherever you guys are we would love to chat with you about how we can work together and make everybody win let's go let's make everybody win without further Ado let's jump in and hear from the boys all right pro team we're back another research meeting we didn't do this last week because I was away in Mexico what a ridiculous week to take off uh I didn't

bring my laptop with me so I couldn't do much uh and didn't have like my ledgers or anything so I couldn't trade anything uh not that I would have traded much but let's talk a little bit about what the not not let's not talk about what happened because I think everyone's heard a ton about that already in terms of news and whatever but I think we can talk about has this changed anything for us uh maybe we'll just start the the research discussion there so let's start with this let's actually Zoom all the way out and get even out of crypto and just think for a second it's what February whatever it is first week of February 2025 Trump is in office just terrorizing the world basically at least up in Canada we're just getting crushed over there by trump our dollar is just absolutely wrecked the world is changing

quite fast I think um we won't jump into all the stuff with tariffs and things like that because I mean this stuff's just changing on a very fast rate so it doesn't make sense right now but overall you know as I said the world's changed how would you set up your portfolio today and let's not talk super dgen let's talk about maybe someone new that's come in and and they've got some assets they've got some Capital they want to put to work uh they want to kind of build a portfolio how you starting out and let's talk you know maybe it's Bitcoin eth so whatever maybe it's stable coin I don't know maybe it's some stocks or some bonds or something else you got up your sleeve like whatever that is like how how would you guys sort of set up

your portfolio right now first of all welcome back thank you thank you and uh mostly in that situations it's the best to not do anything at all so maybe it was a good thing to not have your laptop oh I agree absolutely Adrian Mar you start off you how would you set up your portfolio today we just had this discussion on uh disc got in our Pro community so um what I posted is basically a all weather portfolio by Ray Delio uh more on the conservative side of Investments even though he Embraces Bitcoin right now so that's a cool thing from such an investment legend for me personally to be honest because I think the stock

market is already valued quite high I would like to have more uh room to play so it would be a bigger allocation in Fiat and stable coins as well it would certainly be a lot of Bitcoin because this cycle just is just showing us it's the Bitcoin Bull Run basically and it's the number one asset that that gets adopted by Nations and it just has so much traction so it's absolutely crazy certainly is also some Solana because it's the number one retail chain and it has the numbers it has the fees um it's just showing so much strength even though we see some unlocks and stuff

like that but that should be short term I think in February now in November again but compared to the market cap it's not huge as far as I've seen it would be ETFs of course the S&P 500 or maybe an MSC World a little bit more conservatively but also an Emerging Markets ETF to profit from China uh when they can boost their economy when the dollar finally gets a little bit weaker the stocks in China might perform well I think they also performed quite well recently it would certainly be a little bit of gold just to have the commodity uh side as well and yeah maybe a

relatively uh similar um percentage wise right now uh maybe 20% Bitcoin 20% ETFs 10% gold and for now a little bit more of STA and Fiat interesting a very balanced portfolio globally and across various assets interesting uh which honestly when you don't really know what's going to go on probably not a bad idea uh because there is a lot of ups and downs Martin what are you thinking how much cash would you hold Adrian when we talk cash is this like your rainy day fund or this is outside of a rainy day fund and this is more like your invest portfolio cash yeah yeah just invest Investment

Portfolio cash yeah certainly uh something like 10% uh maybe and maybe 30% or 40% even in Stables because stable yields are quite good right now in the bull market and we have so much uncertainty I really like if you can deploy uh quite fast when something happens like we just experienced why hold any cash that's not in a yield bearing stable coin right now yeah yeah like I I'm trying to funnel every doar I can find that is not like my rainy day fund or whatever into just stable coins yield bearing stable coins like even our company just like Jay give me more of our more dollars please Martin doesn't get paid till next month give me his

paycheck first we'll put it in now yeah you were so bullish on coin and I recognized I don't have any Fe cash to buy a coin right now so maybe for that case but you will be able to Buy on noses chain probably this week or next week I'm a little bit cautious because I experienced that before also on uh was it Luna protocol or something like that last bull cycle we had some tokenized stocks and all of them failed basically yeah it's all right Martin what's your portfolio setup you got something different yeah um we had a discussion on Discord and it was more like some people

were suggesting bonds and gold and cash and I guess I'm more aggressive guy and I really I wonder if Warren Buffett was uh kind of still playing the game and whether his his success if he would be able to kind of do his success again all over again because okay he was right about something he had some strategy that was working 20 years ago and you know he explore the economies of scale and now like everyone seems like ah Warren Buffett would never buy Bitcoin because of that and that but like is it gonna work for the next 20 years probably not

so I feel like all the people are looking into the past and saying like hey if you hold I don't know 6040 is usually kind of ratio you should hold 60% in stocks and 40% in bonds I think it's just old school way of thinking about the world like the world we are heading is like very different like and I want to be positioned for that future so like I'm Not Looking Back I'm looking forward and all I see is AI disrupting everything and the world we know we can't even imagine how the world is gonna look like in five 10 years yeah so I am more for for Tech Guy and like technology guy so my portfolio would be

really well I am all in crypto but I I I would be really considering just like uh crypto NASDAQ and that's probably it I love that what about a crash what a here's the you know I'll give my opinion but Jay if you want to go first or you can I can toss my opinion in but up to you yeah I'd be Allin long exponential Tech right now Allin long I think I think the next 5 years are going to be the best five years that we have seen in a long time I think there's going to be you know Adrian you say what about the crash I think it's gonna be crazy volatile yes I think there's going to be ups and downs but if you are in a position where what we're talking about is money that you don't need for five

years right like you're willing to go long for five years and you're not going to you're not trying to take profits in the meantime then I'd be Allin long I'd be really heavy in Bitcoin uh depending upon how much work you want to do I might go down the risk curve in crypto but only if you're willing to put in the work only if you're willing to to do the research to learn about all these various tokens to follow the narratives if you're not then I'd be in I'd be in Bitcoin I'd be in coinbase and I'd be in some i' probably be in the EF as well and I'd just keep it simple like I wouldn't I wouldn't try to confuse it

because I just think I think I think this year is going to we're going to end higher than we are right now at the end of this year I don't think there's any argument there I think we're going to be volatile for the short term I I like Adrian what you're saying of keeping cash makes a ton of sense to me but if you're putting in the work and if you're paying attention right if you're not then like just go long exponential Tech and in the next five years I think you're gonna be way richer than you are today and it's the simplest strategy ever if you can handle this mentally uh in a in a crash that you don't have cash maybe to buy something a new because I always regretted that I uh hadn't the money to buy a lot in the bare market so

buying right now all of it then you basically have to believe a little bit in the super cycle that we see up only for five years I'm just all in fart coin because hot air rises isn't that isn't that it or is that done since I got back from Mexico okay I actually really agree with Jay I think so more particular than exponential Tech is US dominance so I think the US just crushes it over the next four years what elon's doing for the government right now what Scott Bon's gonna do at treasury what I mean it's not even Trump I don't really care about Trump in his in his presidency right now it's although he's obviously doing good with negotiations and stuff it's this entire Tech like Savvy Administration that he's put in I think

they are just going to change the world so fast in terms of adopting Ai and self-driving cars and Robotics and like and most of this is going to happen in the US right and as Martin said the world is going to change fast and I think that's going to be completely led by the US and so I think you need to have your capital in dollars and it needs to be not necessarily in like Fiat but in dollar denominated assets like Tech and crypto is technically dollar denominated as well I think nothing is is everyone is so like okay the market is overvalued it's gone up for a while like it's got to have this pullback we got this bare Market I think we are going to a world were 10 trillion doll

companies is normal like if you think five years ago we had no companies that were over a trillion dollars everyone was like oh my God we're so overvalued when Apple hit a trillion and I forget things Microsoft or whatever hit a trillion and now they're all three trillion dollar companies right Apple Microsoft Nvidia and that's just normal to us and I think the way that this world is going is there's going to be so much dominance in these tech companies that own Ai and start to dominate the the technologies that we use every day uh and we're only going to get more and more and more of that especially as AI takes over and I think these companies are going to go to1 trillion dollar assets and so um you either try to pick those tech companies maybe it's Tesla

maybe it's Microsoft maybe it's you know Nvidia maybe it's Apple whatever or you just buy the NASDAQ um as someone who is if you're not paying attention a lot just buy the NASDAQ because that's just basically US tech right uh you just buy that and you just that thing's just going to run and run and run for years yes there will be a pullback and there will probably be a bare Market within the next five years but like who cares right like it's like if you held Bitcoin since 2020 you had a an year-long bare Market in 2022 do you care if you've been holding till today right like that year-long bar Market from 69k down to 16k and now we're at 100K or whatever we're at I don't know right so it's like that bar Market didn't matter really if you just continue to hold uh it did if

you hold a bunch of garbage and a bunch of dog [ __ ] right most things have not come back to its alltime high like that is a problem but if you just so Bitcoin you were fine and so I think dollar or so us-based tech stocks are going to just absolutely crush it and a few of them probably Apple probably Tesla are going to 10 trillion um and so I would definitely hold that and then obviously crypto uh again just Majors though like don't try to screw around with a bunch of this stuff unless you are paying attention you know what's going on you're watching this show like then it makes sense if you want to have some fun with that like it is fun you can get you know massive uh returns if you do it but like the easiest thing is just buy some

Bitcoin buy some salana maybe buy some eth I know eth is having some troubles I think it will do its thing at some point um but easily just buy Bitcoin buy coinbase again coinbase look at this that's your crypto exposure and your US tech exposure it's got everything right uh and so I'm all US tech and major crypto if you were to hold any cash for me it's ssds which is Sky stable coin I don't know why you would not hold that if you were holding any fiat currency it makes no sense to not put your money into that um because now we're even getting to a point where one of the reasons I was unsure about putting a bunch into that is it costs a little bit to get your money out of crypto into like Fiat to then go buy things but now

you can use like ethery as a credit card right where you can just hold your dollar or your like your Stables or your eth inside of a self- custom wallet and there's a credit card attached to it right and you can go buy things and so did they release it already uh I'm not sure I thought I saw it on on Twitter that they had but maybe not but either way these things are coming where it's now going to be pretty easy to use your crypto you can also get like crypto.com credit card whatever but it's pretty easy to EAS your crypto to start to spend right uh even stripe is now allowing you to buy like pay your invoices it's the number one option right it's the default option now is to use usdc so it's like putting your money in the crypto ecosystem you never really

need to bring it out because there's credit cards that can can do that for you I I don't know why I we're not just plumming everything into into either stable coin or into US tech or or Majors crypto like you just do that for the next five maybe 10 years and and I think you're going to outperform everyone and I don't think you need to worry about this overvaluation stuff I think that's all [ __ ] which is why I agree with Martin with like the Warren Buffett style like sure you can still find maybe some valued undervalued Investments you got to do a lot of research for that though but the thing you know for sure is that Tech is going to proliferate and it's going to happen really fast with this new Administration you just you need to be a part of that if you don't

have money in these in these two assets crypto and Tech like you're getting wrecked and I feel bad for everyone who's not paying attention to that and I also think like yes you can buy gold and you can buy like Emerging Markets blah blah but for me it's like everything's moving up together based on liquidity right and so it's like you might as well just hold the fastest horses in the race which is Bitcoin and US tech right why hold Tech in Europe or where if there's even any tech there I don't even know anymore but like it just doesn't make sense you know just get we don't have Tech in Europe no it just Race by far and and I think they're just gonna I think it's just going to be a hell of a next you know at

least four years with Trump in his presidency but I'm sure things continue past that because in four years from now man this world's gonna be very different and if you're not owning US tech in crypto like you're wrecked in my opinion yeah it's so funny I saw on Discord many people talking about Kyle's crypto portfolio and uh basically having most of it in the majors and uh yeah we're talking about my portfolio the people just thought your portfolio idea in general is quite good against volatility I mean it's definitely very it's a very volatile uh well I guess it depends how you look at it like if you hold crypto and US tech that's very

volatile to the rest of the world to crypto people though if you hold just Bitcoin let's say salana and then like the NASDAQ they're like yo there's no volatility in that like you're taking no risk and it's like dude you you understand how risky that is that's insane uh although actually if you think about it again based off our thesis it's not risky at all in my opinion to hold Bitcoin and and Tech like I actually think it's very risky to not hold that stuff like imagine trying to buy a home imagine trying to buy a home in this in this world where like I don't know I don't know what the average wage is in the US or even other countries but like real estate's gone up so much again because of the same phenomenon because all this liquidity right uh and and then

in a lot of places you can't build a lot of homes Etc and so like real estate is so expensive like how do people afford to buy a home if they're not punting crypto and US stocks and like making a 3X in a year or two years and then using that to put their down payment like it's it's very difficult in this world at least you know the average income anyway so I feel like You' got to do it if you want to keep up in this world um so to me it's more risky to not hold this stuff um and more risky to be heavily in cash like it just makes no sense in this world yeah I think even if if you if you look back like last 10 years and you compare like SNP gold and Nasdaq real estate with M2 how that supply of money

is increasing then only NASDAQ is outperforming everyone else is like SNP is in line with M2 and everything else is just uh underperforming and about the real estate what people don't realize yeah real estate is growing because it but pretty much everyone is using on real estate you will come to the bank you will show them hey look this is my contract I making like I don't know uh that much money so give me like you know 50 times more so I can buy that that property so that's why it's keep growing because of kind of the Leverage is is is huge and then the people who knows how that game is played then they will just like refine use that leverage and like

buying more properties and that's why the like the scissors between the the wealthy people poor people are like increasing because the the the the rich people they know how how this world works and because our generation like my parents and like even my friends they are scared scared of Debs and but this word like where you can borrow uh money for uh 3% or 4% while there are some assets like Tech or or crypto obviously you need some like uh guts to do it but for those people who are doing it who are taking that risk

they will be like hugely rewarded for doing so this is my other like I didn't include real estate in my in this portfolio here and and for good reason I actually think it's a terrible idea to buy real estate in the day and age um now I own an apartment in Toronto and a house that I live in and I rent out my apartment and it's all a [ __ ] scam it costs so much to do it you have to have like so so much money to get a deposit there's ridiculous fees to do it all it's not liquid at all if I want out I can't get out um there's so many additional hidden fees in terms of when things break and blah blah blah blah so like I I hate it I wish that I didn't buy my place in Toronto I just punted it

all in Bitcoin and I'd be so much happier because the returns are way better uh I could have just dollar cost average instead of having to put this huge lump sum in I never have to deal with a tenant things never break like it's just it's so much better than trying to buy real estate um and so like if you can instead put more money into Bitcoin or US tech and just rent a place you're actually going to be way better off 10 years from now than trying to buy a place um especially if you're trying to buy it to rent whatever like it's actually a bit of a scam I don't and this is coming from Canada the fastest growing real estate market in the world maybe outside of Australia like we have the best real estate uh in terms of like our our percent returns and it's just

it's like you just get smoked by not holding Bitcoin and then you can't use it ever right like it just sits there and I got to like wait for the perfect time for rates to come down so that I can it's just I don't know it sucks I can sell it real estate real estate has been the the way that our entire generation has gotten Hooked On The Current financial system yeah right that is the the mortgage was this the the financial systems way of saying okay we got to figure out a way to control all the assets and to be the hey you you want to you want to make it in life you okay you got to come to us you got to work with

us what's the best way to do that you need a mortgage right and then once you're in you're stuck basically you're in they got you right and so I think yeah I completely agree I think that it's a it's a story that we've been told our entire lives that you must buy a house you know go to school get married have a kid buy a house you'll be good that story's done it's not like that anymore and and it's only five years from now it's really not going to be like that right the only thing good about it is if you are not very financially Savvy and good with your money and like if you don't have the power to control your mind of like I'm going to make sure to take part of my paycheck and invest it and not sell it and go buy whatever dumb thing with it

um that's the only thing good about it is like people who are not FY Savvy just force them to put it in and and you know they put however much in every month to their house and they can't do anything with it right and they just do that for like aund like 40 years and boom all of a sudden they have whatever the value of your house is so like in that world it's good but if you are just have a little bit of like control self-control then you can just do that over in Bitcoin and US tech stocks and you will be way better off problem is most people in the world like 90% of people don't have the ability to actually control their finances they do dumb things with their finances like that's the only smart thing same with like a pension like to

be honest a pension is kind of also a scam uh and I don't even think that like at our age we're going to even get so I don't give a [ __ ] about a pension and uh but again a lot of people it's very nice because you just put it in you can't really touch it because you get tax like crazy if you try to take it out it's like okay it's good for that if you want your whatever 5% per year turns and and you can't mess it up like okay that's kind of fine but like I don't know you should be looking for much better than 5% returns because inflation's higher than that so you're getting wrecked just on inflation if that's your goal right uh and so yeah that's why I don't include real estate any of that stuff in uh in that all right yeah Adrian you

said uh I want to be clear I'm not saying that I believe in the super cycle earlier you said like the only reason you know I don't believe in the super cycle I'm not saying that's the case uh I just wanted when you said you want to hold cash right now is that because shortterm you see volatility why do you want cash right now I want to be able to buy the dip uh defit you just want to buy dips you just want to buy next bear Market yeah the next bear or like do do you you think you still think we end the year higher than we are now like you still believe we're we're in this bull run for the rest of the year he's an early cycle Boomer he thinks the next like two months three months so far I was but now

it's changing so fast and not sure about it anymore but I want the flexibility at least okay we said fundamental non Deion so also not a lot of trading so maybe it would actually be less cash but now I'm not holding a lot of cash and it doesn't feel great and I just want to clarify you should hunt if you are punting US tech stocks and crypto you need to have a rainy day fund right we're saying 100% US tech stocks in crypto for the most of us we still have a like I still have cash sitting in a bank account doing absolutely nothing and this isn't your savings this isn't my savings in case my house blows up or whatever or my AC breaks which happens all the time when you're a homeowner uh and so you need

cash that's not invested so like make sure you have that because if you're hunting US stocks and tech stocks in crypto and you don't have any cash it's a scary stressful anxious world out there I did that for a little bit when I like bought my house and I was all in crypto and I had no cash at that point and I was like oh [ __ ] this is crazy uh but um you know built up the stock pile and now I feel good again but so don't go all in crypto it's not worth it I just want to emphasize that we are all talking how bullish are we on uh NASDAQ and how many people in the the world has access to NASDAQ and hold it MH yeah I would I would say it's like maybe 1 billion but the rest of the

world has no excess which is why crypto is going to be like is going to be so big or the nasdaq's going to move on chain which is actually what's going to happen and then capital is going to flow to anything and that's why Apple Microsoft Tesla will go to 10 trillion is because not just because there is you know better products that they're creating with AI and so it's reaching more customers and people are spending more money on them but because capital is just getting more and more available around the world right and so assets will come on chain and now the whole world has the ability to buy coinbase Tesla and apple which as you said most of the world can't right now so capital is just going to flow into the best assets as the doors open in different countries so there's just multiple

reasons why a few of these are going to 10 trillion quick break from today's episode just to tell you guys people are always asking me what credit card I use and specifically what crypto credit card I use because I know that people are looking to spend on chain dollars my recommendation is the crypto.com credit card here's why number one there's no annual Fe love it number two you get cash back in crypto love it number three you get a bunch of perks free Netflix fre free Spotify and a bunch more and finally you get lounge access if you're like me and you're traveling to crypto conferences you're going to get lounge access which going to make your travel even better so check check the link in the show notes check out the crypto.com

credit card highly recommend it now let's get back to the episode and hearing for the milro pro team by the way if you want to pick a stock Tesla's your stock I tell you that right now like how can you not bet on Elon Musk who is literally leading the government at the moment and basically telling the whole US Government what to do he is the guy in charge of it all uh and he's got one of the sickest companies that is about to change the world when FSD fully self-driving becomes reality and this humanoid robots become a reality and they happening very very fast and very soon like I couldn't be more bullish stock but anyway and as I said in the beginning like soon you will be able to buy uh Tesla on noses chain yeah and you will also be able to provide the

liquidity so you have Tesla stock and then you have ssds which is right now getting 12% and you can just provide a liquidity in some range so let's say I don't know Tesla is trading at five 500 today and you will provide the liquidity between 500 and 5K let's say so what's happening is that once the the stock is going down you are buying Tesla and when it's going up you are slowly selling but you are all the time making M money because the part of your Stables is earning still some yield still you have upside uh upside Potential from Tesla plus you are getting trading fees for

the people who are trading with Tesla stocks and incentives for six months I want that when's that coming yeah hopefully this or next week yeah but that's why we need defi AI most people can't do that right now especially with concentrated liquidity uh an a agent could help you yeah well that's a good transition let's talk AI we talked about how teac is going to take over the world we're very bullish on Tech over the next five years and that means AI that means robotics that means biotech that means obviously crypto um let's move into AI specifically though we had a big finally like capitulation moment for AI uh last week when I was in Mexico and I was like

what's going on and so that was a bit Wild Things puked like there was like Ai 16z and cerebra were down like 90% in the last like 30 days I mean virtuals I don't think got down that bad but was down pretty bad the AI agents got smoked AI got wrecked finally after a incredible run of the last I don't know whatever it's been six months or something like that my question is does anything changed like what happened there was it just a capitulation event where just people had to take some risk off because this stuff has just rode up so much or I know part of this was because of the deep seek thing do you guys think anything's actually changed here or like what's your thoughts on just the AI Market broadly I guess I think it was a serious of events and it

started with the Trump meme coin sucking all of the liquidity out of the market agents selling off extremely when Trump launched uh after afterwards one week later the Deep seek story which is actually extremely bullish open source and also crypto Ai and yeah now the tariffs so a few heavy weeks but after such a uh crazy Bull Run in Q4 these this bubble had to burst at some point yeah but when you say bubble had to burst you think most of this is still coming back or do you think we've now kind of like we're going to clean up 80% of it's just washed and is done now and just the the good ones will kind of

Blossom from here or or are we just going to point it all back 80% will die and you see a lot of hackathons for example happening right now the teams that are really building that try to be docked uh go in public and present their stuff they are the good ones and they are already um appreciating in price I saw some smaller agents making in 24 hours 100% so man what's C money coming back is every ecosystem is having Ai hackathons and so the amount of AI projects whether they're agents or products or protocols or platforms or whatever that are coming out in the next little bit here and we'll probably have tokens tied to it

because I think everything's gonna have a token tied to it now it's just gonna go so exponential it's gonna make it so damn hard to invest in this space but it's real Alpha just watching these hackathons for example on YouTube they have these events from nit from he's working with IG Foundation I think you can uh very fast see this product has legs it could have a product Market fit that has good Founders maybe it's an investment worth and most of them are trash of course Martin what's your thoughts yeah I I I just finished report which is more like high level understanding of AI and what's the impact on uh pretty much everything but the the key thing here is with deep seek I realized that maybe

open source market share will be much bigger than everyone expected because like until now we all were thinking okay s m man open AI they they they have the knowhow the unique knowhow and therefore their their chat is the the best one pretty much well there are some um other models but you know they are the best performing model out there and all of a sudden some new model came out and they released everything all all the papers so how they train them how did they make these improvements why the computation costs were lower and it's it's just sending the message that like okay so

maybe we will see more open- Source models being able to compete with the closed Source like from open Ai and now it's it's kind of creating the pressure to um you know open AI anthropic and all these close Source models which is great and I start to believe that the part when you were saying that Tesla Apple Microsoft they are all going to be over chillion maybe but I was more bullish before I realized that maybe oper Source AI models will have a bigger share and I believe that at some point in the future the most used models will be open sourced and therefore like no no

Microsoft no meta like no one will have the full control and the unique knowhow that they can like sell the world and charge like huge margins that's that's one thing but the models and probably not the applications the applications will still be big Tech and they will earn a lot of money with it yeah that's what I'm thinking right like all Apple needs to do what Microsoft needs to do is just put AI into their entire business and make their products way better make Google Docs write themselves make Google presentations create themselves or do things that I can't even think of right because I don't work for Microsoft and I haven't thought about this and their whole business just becomes way way way way way better and more efficient and more profitable and they don't have to even really have the

model right they're just their products that are already used by hundreds of millions of people are now used by more people and are even better and help people with their jobs or their personal life even better and people pay more money for them right and so their business just keeps growing or they launch new products right yeah but like you you can you can run uh deep seek Air1 they the the model that is uh compe competing with open AI on on on a on a hardware which cost 2K so I can pretty much have like this genius genius model and have it have it running locally just just here on my table and just have a chat for free like whenever I want and if I'm sleeping I can just sell my

computation to anyone so like you know I'm not gonna pay anyone for using AI maybe because I will run that's something for nerds and not a lot of people yeah that's that's a nerd thing for sure like it's like when the internet starts like I could have my own computer and and build my own website and do all this and that and like most people still in this world have not done that they still just go like they still go and do it from Amazon they go and do it from whatever websites that someone's made a great ux and has good branding and it's like you know built good trust Etc that's how most people are going to end up using it we're not going to buy our own like machine and have it in our house you know what I mean unless someone creates

like a thing where you buy this machine to do all that but there's a beautiful app inside of it which who's best to do that probably apple or Microsoft right like I don't think we're just G to buy some random GPU that can like process a [ __ ] ton and just like chat with it you know because also I don't think chat is really the endgame here I think there's so much more to it um but someone's got to build a ux for it that's the thing and so you know we'll have tech companies that do that not to say that what you're saying of like the whoever creates the a stuff I think that's going to be a very valuable product as well but I think there are AI models which are like the the general language models they are good but they are still General

but there will be AI agents and if I should like I think most people will use AI agents which are just like Advanced levels or like just focusing on a specific use case because right now if you want to do you know something very specific to your needs and you're going to use just the C GPT it might not be able to help but I'm pretty sure there is someone who had the same need and build a product for it so that's why I think that this kind of more specialized agents will be able to outperform and deliver better results than like more General llm uh do you think the mainstream will use AI or like will mainly use front facing a or will

the mainstream just work with the same businesses or the same services that they currently do I.E humans who will then use AI in the background like what I think of is we have a marketing agency and people pay us to create content for them right and in the background what we're building right now is uh an AI like an llm that can learn how we create content understand like our process and and and how we do it and then understand our clients and their brand and their voice Etc and then it spits out ideas for us and so we have unlimited amount of content every day now now it doesn't go and publish it for us like we still look at it and go that's a good one maybe we just need to jig it a little bit here and then we go and post it but

they're still paying us you know our clients are still paying us and because they want to work with the human right not necessarily the AI it's just like we are using all the AI in the background right and then we also we put out a um I was thinking last week uh and I haven't had a chance to talk to team about this but we put out a newsletter and I think it was called like we just um asked five AIS when the top of the psycle was going to be and it was our worst performing newsletter for open rates by a long shot like I'm talking by like a massive percent and I was like huh is it because people didn't care what the AI thought because they just want to know what the humans think because they trust us they relate to us they feel with us you know

what I mean I don't know I haven't asked the team yet I just saw this when I was away because you know I was supposed to be on vacation and I was obviously looking at open rates and click the rates and things like that anyway uh and I was like huh maybe most people are still just going to trust the humans it's just the people that they're trusting are going to use all the AI in the background you know I don't know human connection to build trust certainly that's what I mean like a lot of business to business a lot of things are based off trust and human relation and I don't know if that goes away fully like obviously there'll be some ways that we'll use AI always like we probably won't use Google we'll use whatever the AI version of that is right

uh because it's just better and easy and faster but like I just mean in in a lot of consumption a lot of like the way business works like are we all going to just use AI or are we going to just use humans that use a like I don't know but it was just an interesting thought I had I think in in like short midterm we going to use people who are capable of using AI but in the future like you know too easy not to they will learn to do it the same way but they will be better than us right so like open AI just announced the uh researcher their new agent and it's it's doing the whole research for you and it's pretty good so imagine that like people are now uh

asking this researcher to do research for whatever they want and they are getting like pretty good reports and people on Twitter are saying like wow this is pretty huge and like good good output so all of a sudden you have a kind of new material for uh these language models to be trained on and be improved so you know it's already like they all they already know all the internet and everything that's available and now we are just like trying to learn them how to do proper research and then based on that research they can even like learn more and like improve even even further so where okay let's what I want to jump to not jump but what I want

to do is crypto where do the tokens like what in this world we're talking about where AI like it seems obvious that AI is coming and you know we're all going to use it eventually like where does a to like what token are you investing for this though you know know what I mean like what sector we' even looking at like for me I still just think for those listening go to go back to our like easy easy mode for investing if you just buy blockchains you are capturing this AI upside you know what I mean like if you just buy salana or eth you are capturing anything that's happening right the one thing we know for sure is there's going to be a lot of AI companies and many of them are not going to IO in the traditional way they're going to launch

tokens okay so that's bullish l1s right we know AI agents are going to be everywhere we know they're going to buy things for people and we know they're going to do it via probably stable coins or some crypto asset but they're going to do it on a blockchain because they can have a wallet and they don't need kyc and blah blah blah blah and so like there's two obvious use cases on blockchain but none of that tells me hey I should buy this AI token do you know what I mean like still don't know that I'm buying any AI agent tokens I still don't see except for like the virtuals a i6z which are helping people launch these tokens which still seems like a big obvious use case for me outside of that I'm kind of still like I I don't know where I'm putting my Capital to

capitalize on AI outside of l1s because the AI token and the winner is not here already I mean there are blockchains being built specifically for AI like OG Labs is building on OG blockchain uh so we'll see whether that works out but I don't think that AI will live on Solana or base forever it's now this transition period you think they're going to move to AI specific l1s yeah depending on the needs why why why would Bas and salana lose that market share you don't think they're going to go after that you don't think they already are they're already the biggest for it uh most likely because of scalability because they

haven't figured that out yet um Solana still gets digested I mean should be better with a fire dancer but it's not here yet and um maybe you also need um another consensus mechanism for example right guess we don't know what we don't know yet right y we know a lot of AI is coming and they're going to use the blockchain which blockchain we don't really know yet but that's gonna be a crazy world Martin any thoughts or Jay any thoughts on where you're looking for AI are you just buying Microsoft and Tesla yeah I think we just see some pick and shovels like virtuals ai6 Z on cryp to right now with a agents but like 99%

of a agents are useless maybe maybe 100% are useless I wouldn't pay for any of them but just yeah you know it's a good point they're GNA use the blockchain they're going to use defi protocols right that's what they're going to do is they're going to move money for us they're going to buy things transact whatever and so if you think what is the AI going to use right we always sit here and we think okay what are humans going to use I keep asking what's the mainstream going to do in in Ai and it's like stop thinking about that because there's only 8 billion ion of us there's about to be hundreds of billions of AIS doing things consuming and transacting what are they going to use right they're going to use defi because humans are going to say hey I want better yield of my dollars and

this stupid treasury bond that I'm buying sucks at 4% or 3% or whatever like do something better and they're gonna go okay and they're gonna go to maker or Athena or whatever else is out there right and and they're going to just trade [ __ ] and do that for you and so you actually continue to think like just what are these AIS instead of what is the AI token I buy like what are these AI agents going to use I don't know that's the way I think about it is that kind of what you're getting at Martin yeah I I am product mxy and if there is some good product and I can see some business around it I I'll I'll buy that token but it's not there yet but I still want to say that I think the tokens are a good thing and you need

them because it's just to help you like if I'm going to launch some new app today which is good like what what am I going to do how am I going to get my first 100,000 users like it's going to be super hard and tokens kind of feel like think of tokens as energy like if you have tokens you have energy so you just need to use that energy like well because it can bring you users then it can bring you lawyer users then it can bring you like get uh product feedback and you can iterate and improve your product much faster it's the best way to boot strip especially as a small team without fun funding one of the things I wonder is on

valuations of the stuff we're used to the last cycle of like how high things got in terms of their valuations right like I forget what Unis swap got to in its FTV it 40 billi 40 billion right we had multiple things go up to like a 100 billion uh and I just wonder with all these new tokens is that going to remain because one thing to understand is like the crypto world gets way higher valuations than the non- crypto world and so like for a lot of companies it's smarter to just launch a token because you're just valuation of your company just goes almost 10A right like we have so many dog [ __ ] like assets that are worth billions of dollars that would never get that in traditional world right they would never get rais uh at that level um whether it was private or

public you're not getting them close to that but in crypto it's kind of like this like premium you get you launch a token and you're just valued at more and at some point that's got to converge I would assume I don't think it stays like that forever I think we just it's it's been like that because there wasn't a whole ton of tokens back the day and the capital is just kind of stuck there and I think that that has to converge and so either valuations non- crypto go up or uh in like private markets and stuff or crypto valuations not saying like bitcoin's going to come down or ether soul is going to come down but like they probably get valued more similar to how it is in the normal world and so I just think we have a lot less tokens that go

to these ridiculous numbers right like it's very easy to buy some [ __ ] token out and it's like that'll probably go to like 100 million and and it's like you don't buy a lot of companies in the private world that go to 100 million you know that's actually quite difficult um but you can buy anything in this space and it can have no use case and it's going to 100 million and if it has just a little bit of a use case it goes to a billion and you're like what the [ __ ] is going on right uh and so I just wonder I think it's going to get a lot harder out there and a lot of tokens are not going to get these premium valuations anymore we will have tokens that go ballistic and make it to the hundreds of billions

and even trillions like we have with Bitcoin but it's going to be few and far between I think and we're it used to be you were guaranteed to get to like you know tens to hundreds of millions if you launch token guaranteed and now I think that that is gonna go away I don't know do you guys see a change in valuations here what do you think it used to be so in the mcoin super cycle in the summer we saw so many mem coins going to T or 100 million US dollar valuations quite quick then it dumped and they went to the next one it's just a pump and dump from the bigger liquidity players yeah and on the other side you have under Valu tokens right if you compare it with I don't know coinbase or Robin Hood and look at their I don't know price to sales ratios

and then compare it with um some defi projects mostly because they are they have product Market fit they're making money they are profitable then like you know there's probably like 98% of projects that are going to die or they will just do they're overvalued right now I don't know yeah overv value it doesn't make sense at all like and but if we think that the future is also driven by AI usage and the the the people are not smart enough or like sophisticated enough to know what to do and how to behave then therefore the all these things will be kind of outsourced to AI agents because they they are trained and they know what to do the

best for you they're going to use the best products and those products are the ones that we want to hold their equity or like they tokens see that's tough 99% of tokens probably overvalued aren't going to make it and then 1% is probably undervalued right now uh and probably needs to be repriced at some point it's wild Jay you're gonna I think if you look at it from like supply and demand definitely from the supply side we are increasing supply of tokens exponentially right which from that perspective would make you say okay these these valuations can't can't continue can't maintain but then if you look at a from the demand side from that side though there's also going to be incredible growth over the next few

years because there's only what 500 million people right now that are in crypto might not even be 500 million people 500 million wallets right so if we look at it from that side and you have as you said before Martin only what a billion people have access to the nas deck what happens when that stuff comes on chain and everybody has a wallet and it's easy to use crypto okay so I I don't know I could see I think both will increase I think both Supply is going to increase and demand is going to increase at the same time so I don't I think there could be I don't think these crazy valuations continue forever but I wouldn't be surprised to see it continue in in the the short term of the next few

years yeah right well I mean we're definitely we're going to get liquidity this year at some point and then everything's going to punt which I still think is happening I know everyone's kind of giving up on that and saying like allcoin season's never going to happen I still think that that's going to happen I just think we haven't had the macro environment for that to happen so people get lost on that so everyone's so impatient everyone is so impatient like well and they follow the cycle thing which I understand is a nice picture and it's like oh well now we're a little bit delayed you know and it's like I mean things change you know that's just how it works but like cardano's still worth $34 billion how the [ __ ] does that make any sense like Reddit is worth 37 bill ion doll so

Reddit and cardano are worth the same like absolutely not in my opinion I'm trying to look at what other companies are around 35 billion uh and it just like I don't know there just a lot of the stuff still makes no sense to me um but I think do mean by everything will pump Kyle will the top 100 pump or will narratives pump or everything at once I still think that there is a moment that's coming in the next year where rates will be you know maybe a percentage or two lower by then and we're going to print a bunch of money whether it's probably in in 25 it's gonna start at some point okay and and so like Global liquidity is going to just go

ballistic and it's GNA happen across a few different countries whether it's China or Japan or the US I don't know um but I know we're going to print a [ __ ] ton of money because we have to and in that moment everything is going to rip and and I actually think again probably every now like not every freaking stupid meme coin that's worth you know half like $500,000 I don't mean everything because now there's too much but like anything that's relevant is going to is going to do very well and I still think we have that now it's only going to be like a three to six month long thing you know what I mean uh and obviously if you buy the ones that are really good they're going to rip a lot more and so you want to hold those things um but I

don't know when that comes but all I know is you don't want to be on the sidelines for when that happens and that's why I'm like just like buy you Tech buy crypto hold that [ __ ] [ __ ] dips because like this is going to happen at some point and you're going to be like no way I was on the sidelines for that thing right but it's just it's not going to happen till the macro hits and it happens around every 4ish years but it might be five and it might be six like I don't know and I don't really care um but it'll happen we'll have a huge runup um even just look at the last few years we've had these moments where like it's like two three weeks and all of a sudden we just everything doubles and you're like holy [ __ ] that just happened and

then we kind of chill for months and months and months and months and then again it happens again it's like it happened what was it the beginning of 2024 right and then the end of 2024 we had these massive run-ups and then it happened the year before that like the end of 2023 the beginning of 2023 just like doubled then chilled for like eight months doubled then like chilled for eight months and like it just kind of keeps happening uh and so I think like we're gonna have that moment again and um we're just in that moment right now where everyone's kind of nervous and scared but yeah whenever you have that you just can't be on the sidelines and I think everything does well in that world yeah I think like we are at 3.5 trillion today as a crypto market cap and if we

are going to H 10 trillion it's still like 6.5 trillion which is expected to come and then you need to think about the lands of this new capital how are the people how is that Capital going to be deployed and into which assets so like who is gonna be buying your backs right and it's like if there is I don't know hundred thousands of meme coins or some AI coins useless like what's the pitch like how are you gonna sell them why should like your neighbor buy this token and then you have some tokens that are undervalued where you can just hey look at my financials if you are

investor and like well yeah H not all people are investors most a lot of people are honestly you know speculators gamblers yeah they don't really mind so like but from all that Six Trillion some money will be sophisticated by managed by big players big funds big Banks and they will not be looking into these mem coins they will be looking okay we are serious investors we are using to we are used to use like the common series investing approaches so what's available here what what makes a good investment in crypto class today and so you will just okay here is a financial report for

a or Lio or something just have a look if you don't like it then that's fine go byy whatever but I would bet that they are going to like it and also because of all these people are coming into crypto all the activity and like the the businesses that like Lio AV they are doing today they will just grow exponentially so the data we are looking at today even though they already seems pretty bullish they are still like we might be like five Times Higher in like six eight months just fundamentally wise because more people more activity and yeah so I want to I want to be holding those assets and tokens fundamentally yeah there there is a lot I'm seeing a bit of an nve on Twitter of like

fundamental fundamentally strong assets are back right uh they actually performed really really well during this crazy pullback we had last week like salana was not even down that bad at all fundamentally strong with its RV and and generating fees and growth Etc hype didn't even have a pullback if you can believe that obviously Bitcoin did extremely well if you were just holding Bitcoin in Soul or and hype you were like what pullback last week you know what I mean like you didn't actually have anything uh it's just if you were holding AI basically anything of the outside of those three and so I kind of agree and you know what what I was thinking is I don't know that so like last cycle in 2021 everyone was still in lockdown and so everyone came in because of nfts and they were punting crypto and it's like there was nothing else to do

right it was just this like casino and this artfest and everyone and like Coca-Cola and Pepsi and these people were in it it's like the mainstream came into crypto and they had a blast for like six months and then they got wiped out and I actually think this year I don't know why a bunch of mainstream people come in uh like even I know a bunch of people came in because the Trump token I don't think many of them stuck around they weren't really staying here what I think is really GNA come in this year is institutions and companies and trfi investors because all the regulations are allowing them to and so I think the doors are opening for smarter Capital to come in this cycle now retail will come in at some point they will all fomo in you know as

Bitcoin hits whatever and eth hits whatever and soul hits whatever I'm sure a bunch of them will come in and punt stuff which is why I think everything goes up but I really do think that Martin fundamental assets are going to do well over the next year here because as regulations change in the US more institutions come in larger Capital comes in and they're not going to buy the dumb meme coins like fcoin right they're going to be looking for those undervalued assets that we were talking about and they're going to be thinking more of Revenue and growth Etc not Vibes and crypto Twitter and so uh I think the game is going to change there for for these crypto native people that are

trying to like it's all PTP right it's just like there's only a certain amount of Crypt native people that are punting these mem coins and AI agents and stuff and I think that that game will always continue but I think it's going to be crushed by the fundamental stuff as these institutions come in and maybe we're already seeing it I mean like Bitcoin Domin somehow is back up to 61% right that's not retail coming in and buying that I don't think it's crazy actually by the way that it went back up to to its highs of the cycle went to like not done yet yet I still think we get an all coin season but it's not done yet but you're we're going to 10 trillion in this in this year if you think that right which we all believe right but then I think a lot of stuff

does well everything probably does well but I agree I think defi is underpriced I think defi in America takes off this year in ways that nobody sees we had uh the bitwise boys on the show last week or two weeks ago and Matt Hogan CIO at bitwise talked about like he's like I see three Horsemen right now that like for some reason nobody is recognizing and it's nation states lots of people are talking about nation states maybe everybody sees that but they don't even if they are buying I don't think they're telling anybody yet like if you're a nation state and you're buying why the [ __ ] would you announce it there's no reason to announce it right so I think we're not going to hear the news about that for a while right we have until July until the they have to the proposal

will come out for Trump on the US Stock pile so I don't think anything's happening short term on that then we have corporations corporations are definitely going to start to use D5 very soon they already can there isn't really regulation in their way right so I think that that happens big time and then you have institutional investors which control most of the capital in the world and they certainly are going to start start buying more and more as regulation comes and as the the opportunities for them to buy you have more ETFs coming this year that's definitely going to happen as well so and and then you zoom out even further so let's say 10 trillion by the end of this year then

what 50 trillion 100 trillion in in 10 years from now that's like that's not crazy right to say that we're at 3 trillion right now let's imagine we got to 100 trillion in a decade we're at 3% of where we could get to like that's that's what we're talking about here okay let's wrap up if you count if you count all the tokenized real world Assets in it then we can certainly go to that now it won't be a problem but um if you're saying a lot of smart capital is coming into the space that speaks to me against a general altcoin season because these people will invest into the fundamentally uh good tokens so yeah but don't forget then then you have the

Crypton native Deens that also hold these fundamentally strong tokens they get rich they sell it and they go punt fcoin right and then also don't forget as this happens a bunch of companies are going to start launching tokens right so like retail will fumo in and they won't buy the fundamentally strong stuff they'll buy the stupid stuff right uh and so everything will pump because of that first the big thing is these more you know I mean it's already been happening right Bitcoin salana hyper liquid like these like more fundamentally sound assets are doing well and I think those will continue and probably get more exponential growth here at the end of this year as more liquidity comes in and regulation changes and then you have that weird three to six month period like we had in

2021 where like Pepsi launches a token and you know whoever Kanye West launches a token and a bunch of these you know mainstream people come in and buy these dumb things and that's why and then a bunch of the people from last cycle come and they they buy more xrp and they buy more cardano and whatever because they think that's what's up and that's your moment where like everything kind of happens and then everyone that's been here it's like all right I'm out and then everyone gets wrecked again and we do it all over again see you next year all right let's uh let's wrap up because we're at we're at time here I think the key here from all of us really is don't worry about the volatility it is going to be a crazy volatile few years look at Trump's been in office for

what like two three weeks uh two weeks I guess and it's just been absolute Mayhem he does crazy things things and they end up usually being good sometimes it's bad whatever but what we know is this world is going into this hyper growth of technology and so the Assets in that space are going to go way bigger than you can imagine and so like 10% dips 20% dips they were relevant so just don't worry about it buy good assets if you want to punt around dumb [ __ ] go for it that's fine fcoin a hot air rises I get it um put a little bit in there but otherwise just buy the goods solid assets because they're going to keep winning they're just going to keep winning your Bitcoin your salana hopefully eth at some point uh your your

your NASDAQ or your Tesla your Microsoft whatever these things are just going to keep going and going and going and these the noise you hear in the news every day and tariff this and inflation that and whatever this it's like it's all relevant just continue to hold this stuff for the next five years and everything is good it's fun to stay in the in the moment and understand the news and what's happening and we love that [ __ ] but like it actually doesn't really matter because we know that AI is taking over the world and the biggest tech companies the biggest blockchains they're going to continue to grow it's just that simple and so forget about everything else and then buy uh Martin's uh maker bags because he's he's not doing so well right

now yeah and if you're gonna hold dollars put it in Sky because like it actually is crazy not to do that um all right guys well that was fun good chat sounds like we're not doing anything different with our Pro portfolio let's see what the hell goes on with Trump over the next little bit here Jay you want to wrap anything up no pleasure as always jents thanks for letting me join you guys thanks guys right you guys thanks see you as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5 minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh

and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying this is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose thanks so much for listening in my friends have a wicked awesome day