Behind Axie Infinity's Engine | Jiho (Layer Zero)

Transcript

some, people, might, get, the, community rights, and, some, people, might, get, the economy, right, and, some, people, might, get the, scaling, right, some, people, might, get the, art, and, the, gameplay, right, but, i think, putting, it, all, together, is, great where, the, magic, happens welcome, to, layer, zero, player, zero, is, a podcast, of, unscripted, conversations, with the, people, that, make, up, the, ethereum community, crypto, is, built, by, code, but it's, composed, by, people, and, each individual, member, of, the, crypto community, has, their, own, story, to, tell the, cypherpunks, understood, that, the, code they, write, impacts, the, people, that, use it, and, layer, 0, focuses, on, the, people behind, the, code, because, ethereum, is people, all, the, way, down, and, it, always has, been today, we, are, speaking, with, jiho, from, axi infinity, and, axiom, infinity, might, be, one of, the, first, organizations, that

knowingly, is, calling, them, a, nation and, really, really, fits, that, model, and, i really, think, the, axi, nation, is, the, right way, to, understand, what, axi, is, trying, to do and, so, that, makes, jiho, one, of, the, first core, community, leaders, of, the, axi, nation a, very, um, has, a, very, interesting, vantage point, as, to, how, to, view, communities communities, growing, around, web, 3., i think, as, we, all, know, like all, things, in, web, 3, all, have, communities around, them, everything, that, tends, to work, tends, to, also, have, its, own community and, so, we, discuss, how, the, axi, community has, grown, the, the, ways, that, it, has shaped, over, the, years, during, in, its

various, sizes, as, axi, has, progressed, to its, development, we, talk, a, ton, about, what the, metaverse, is, what, it, means, why people, like, it, and, how, it, will, be, shaped in, the, future and, also, just, some, other, fun, facts, and tidbits, about, jiho, which, i, don't, think you, would, get, anywhere, else, so, let's, go and, start, talking, to, jiho, right, after, we get, to, some, of, these, fantastic, sponsors that, make, the, show, possible, when, you shop, for, plane, tickets, you, probably, use kayak, expedia, or, google, to, compare ticket, prices, so, why, would, you, limit yourself, to, just, one, exchange, when, you trade, crypto, when, you, make, your, trades you, want, to, make, sure, you're, getting, the best, possible, price, on, your, trade, and that's, why, you, should, be, using, matcha matcha, has, smart, order, routing, that splits, your, trade, across, all, the, various liquidity, sources, in, ethereum, and, is

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software, on, ethereum, that, lets, you, trade any, token, at, the, current, market, price, no human, counterparties, or, centralized intermediaries, just, autonomous, code, on ethereum, input, the, token, you, want, to sell, and, receive, the, token, you, want, to buy, the, unit, swap, grants, program, is accepting, applications, for, grants, do, you have, something, of, value, that, you, think you, want, to, contribute, to, the, uniswap ecosystem, no, matter, how, big, or, small your, idea, is, you, can, apply, it, for, a unique, grant, at uniswapgrants.org, and, help, steer, uniswap in, the, direction, that, you, think, it should, go thank, you, uniswap, for, sponsoring bankless, hey, jiha, how's, it, going, hey david, uh, yeah, doing, well, thanks, for having, me, yeah, yeah, of, course, where, are you, in, the, world, right, now, uh, i, am, in uh, puerto, rico, oh, yeah

where, are, you, do, you, live, there, i, don't think, you, don't, live, there, do, you, i'm staying, here, for, a, bit, i, i, got, stuck here, after, mediversa, and, you, know, just have, a, lot, of, work, so, i, didn't, want, to want, to, just, stop, traveling, so well, puerto, rico rico's, not, a, bad, place to, get, stuck, at, so, that, must, be, a, vibe there's, a lot, of, crypto, people, uh, down there, anybody, from, maxie, uh, yeah, there are, some, actually, community, members, down here, for, sure, uh, pl, we, play, basketball go, to, the, gym, together, uh, so, hey, well i'm, sure, you, have, a, axi, friends, all, over the, world, so, no, matter, where, you, get stuck, at, you, can, probably, hang, find, some members, of, the, axi, nation, wherever, you live yeah, that's, that's, one, of, the, best, parts of, the, community, um, so, where, did, you, uh

grow, up, let's, go, back, to, your, let's, go back, to, just, like, your, formative, years where, did, you, grow, up, in, the, world so, i, grew, up, i, was, born, in, new, york, and i, grew, up, there, for, the, most, part um yeah, grew, up, gaming, yeah, so, i, yeah, i grew, up, as, a, gamer, as, a, collector, my, dad is, my, dad's, an, interesting, guy, he's, like he's, a, polymath, man, so, he, has, like, so many, different, interests, right, he, owned a, gallery, as, a, painter, he, collects insects, and, fossils, he's, really, into like, moths, and, butterflies he's, actually, an, attorney, as, as, kind, of as, for, his, profession, so, he's, kind, of like, doing, a, lot, of, different, stuff my, mom, is, korean, she's, like, a, typical tiger, mom, she, was, super, strict so, i, was, always, right, like, trying, to

play, games, she, was, always trying, to, get, me, not, to, play, games, uh, my cousins, are, korean, i'm, half, korean, um, so jiho, is, actually, my, name, uh, my, korean name and, my, cousins, would, bring, over, like starcraft, diablo, world, of, warcraft, it's kind, of, how, i, got, into, gaming, a, bit, uh whatever, game, i, played, my, my, entire school, ended, up, playing, um, for, some reason, i, was, like, the, curator uh, and, yes, i, you, know, got, got, really into, gaming, as, a, kid, i, was, an, only, child so, i, think, like, i, was, you, know, just keeping, myself, occupied, and, trying, you know, kind, of, right, in, the, early, days right, like, starcraft, that, was, the, first thing, i, ever, did, on, the, internet, and, you could, actually, kind, of, socialize, from your, from, your, bedroom, as, as, a, kid um, yeah, my, mom, sent, me, to, boarding

school, because, i, was, way, too, into, wow vanilla, wow, um, and, that's, basically, why i, left, new, york, went, to, new, hampshire yeah, these, are, all, blizzard, games, is that, a, coincidence, or, what's, up, with that, those, are, i, think, a, lot, of, the games, that, really, defined, uh, defined, me i, think, happened, to, be, blizzard, games, um i, was, also, really, into uh, donkey, kong, country, like, during, the super, nintendo, game, days um zelda, like, ocarina, of, time, i, think, i, i played, through, maybe, 20, 20, plus, times obviously, uh, pokemon, i, still, have, my pokemon, collection, from, when, i, was, a, kid i, was, an, early, adopter i, didn't, know, at, the, time, right, but, i have, a, bunch, of, like, first, editions, and shadow, lists, that, i, was, just, collecting

as, a, kid, because, i, wanted, them, like, i would, sell, sharks, teeth, um and, my, drawings, and, stuff, like, that, to scrounge, and, scrounge, up, enough, um, and yeah, apparently, my, my, collection's, worth quite, quite, a, bit, now, which, is, crazy because, like, that, was, all, yeah, you, know just, collected, by, me, as, a, kid, with without, too, much, capital and, you, was, it, to, uh, play, the, actual pokemon, guard, game, or, was, it, more, about the, collection it, was, more, about, the, flex, i, think, and just, i, have, this, collector's, instinct right, where, i, just there's, some, some, things, that, i, just need, right, and, i, think, it's, similar, to my, dad, i, think, i'm, i, think, it's, genetic i, think, i, inherited, it, from, my, father right, where, my, my, dad, has, cases, on, cases of, butterflies, i, think, he, has, like around, 40, 000

our, house uh, so, i, think, i, just, have, that collector's, gene, so, you, know, i, got really, into, you, know, i, played, the, poke, i played, pokemon, on, game, boy, uh, but, in terms, of, the, card, game, and, i, was, an, only child, so, i, didn't, have, anyone, to, play against, me so, i, would, just, collect, them um, you, know, i, was, always, yeah, like, that wasn't, that, was, right, those, were, in, the days, of, kind, of right, it's, like, if, you, wanted, to, play with, other, people, they, had, to, like, kind of, come, over, to, your, house, or, whatever so, people, would, come, over, to, hang, out but, most, of, the, time, i, was, just, by myself, like, i, was, one, of, the, kids, that bought, two, game, boys, so, i, could, trade with, myself, um, my, blue, my, red, and, blue version, so, i, could, get, the, 150, right, you

couldn't, get, one, that, was, one, of, the genius, aspects, of, pokemon, was, you, needed right, like, you, couldn't, get, all, 150, um in, classic, right, in, the, classic, versions unless, you, actually, like, somehow, traded with, someone, who, had, the, other version, of, the, game, i, guess, like, the yeah, the, loophole, was, that, you, could just, be, both, people did, you, ever, complete, your, pokedex i, think, yeah, i, think, i, had, 150., yeah which, was, your, uh, starter, where's, your starter, pokemon uh, i, i, picked, charmander i, meant, i'm, i, like, reptiles, like, i, i grew, up having uh, lizards, and uh, like, salamanders, are, not, ripped, up like, amphibians, but, yeah, like, i, always had, frogs, salamanders

reptiles, um snakes turtles so, you, so, you, pick, the, yeah, right, got, to pick, the, the, fire, fire, reptile, um, you said, that, you, uh were, like, the, trend, setter, for, your, uh for, your, school's, games i, want, to, unpack, that, a, little, bit, how'd that, happen, like, why, was, it, a coincidence, or, was, it, just, you, had, the energy, about, the, games, that, you, liked and, that, ended, up, being, enough, what, was there yeah, it's, it's, it's, strange, where right, like, yeah, i, would, you, know, i, want i, just, wanted, people, to, play, with, me, or like, with, diablo, like, i, would, get, people and, right, i, was, like you, know, i, i, wanted, people, to, trade, with on, amicable, terms, or, it's, gonna, you, know

kind, of, farm, for, me, i, would, gear, them, up and, you, know, say, hey, get, me you, know, send, me, some, stuff, later, you know, once, you're, up, and, running um so, yeah, i, don't know, i, don't, know, i don't, know, i, think, i, i, was, just, really into, it, and my, i, think, also, was, like, my, my, uh, my cousins, were, really, they're, korean, they were, like, really, kind, of, ahead, of, the curve, they, would, get, like, the, new blizzard, game, as, soon, as, it, came, out, so for, some, reason, i, was, always, the, one, uh who, would, get, this, stuff, first, um, and also, was, like, also, i, think, my uh, my, birthday, was, right, around, like where, like, you, know, games, would, launch so, i, would, always, you, know, get, whatever for, my, birthday, and, try, to, spread, it, to the, rest, of, school, so, i, had, people, to

play, with a, winter, birthday yeah february, early, february, yeah, okay, uh that, that's, pretty, good, that's, pretty cool, because, like, uh, actually, we'll we'll, go, and, go, into, that, later, uh wha, was, it, um, perhaps, i, mean, you're, kind of, a, charismatic, dude, so, when, you, come to, come, to, school, with, your, games, that you, want, to, talk, about, um were, were, you, like, a, a, school, socialite like, did, you, like, to, you, just, um like, to, just, share, stuff, with, other people, and, just, happen, to, be, games, or like, what, was, your, role, in, with, your friends, in, school, it, varied, over, time but uh, i, think, like, if, you, ask, me, it's, hard for, me, to, you, know, comment, on, that, but if, you, ask, my, mom, my, mom, will, say, that

you, know, everyone, for, some, reason, all the, boys, or, whatever, like, wanted, uh you, know, to, be, my, friend, for, some, reason they, would, try, to, like, impress, me, by playing, games, i, don't, know, i, don't, know what, it, was, about, but do, you, see, any, of, that, still, being, true in, your, your, time, at, axi, now i, don't, know, like, i, mean, i, think, great like, you, have, an, entire, continent wanting, to, play, with, you, at, the, moment yeah, thinking, back, right, it's, like, it should, have, been, obvious, that, i, think, i could, be, a, good, you, know, a, person, to evangelize, a, game, um, to, spread, a, game, um it's, you, know, it's come, more, into, focus as, things, have, progressed, so, yeah, it's it's it's, been, it's, been, a, crazy, journey, and you, know, i, never, i, never, would, have dreamed, that, i, would, be, you, know

involved, in, gaming, as, a, profession, um, i didn't, know, what, i, want, to, do, with, my life, for, most, of, my, life, right, so, it's only, within, the, last, four, years, or, so that, i've, really, uh, yeah, i, felt, like i've, i've, found, my, calling did, you, ever, have, like, a, entrepreneurial spirit, as, a, kid, or, is, that, also relatively, new, i, think, i, was, uh, so, i, was you, know, selling, sharks, teeth, i, sold candy, in, my, lunch, room, shark's, teeth like, like, we're, talking, about, actual sharks, fossil, sharks, teeth, like, fossil sharks, teeth, like, 10, million, because, my daddy, we, would, collect, fossils, on, the weekend, and, he, would, you, know, he, would let, me, take, you, know, the, ones, that weren't, perfect, and, and, sell, them, to, the kids, um, so, yeah, i was, all, you, know, i, was kind, of, artistic, as, a, kid, too, i, was, you

know selling, my, drawings, i, would, sell, my drawings, and, paintings, to, anyone, that came, into, my, house, like, my, mom's, friends my, tutor people, who, came, over, to, my, dad's, uh who, came, over, to, look, at, my, dad's collection, so, yeah, i, think, like i, i, have, i, think, i'm, a, people, pleaser, uh so, i, i, think, like, right, like, also, giving people, what, they, want, and, having, like some, kind, of, beneficial, two-way transaction, i, think, makes, me, makes, me happy so, it, wasn't, out, of, like, a, like, a, drive to save, up, for, something, that, you, wanted, to purchase, it, was, more, about, like, the transaction, itself i, think, where, like, there's, a, social element, of, it, but, then, obviously, yeah like, you, know, i, always, was, saving, up, for

something, right, my, shadowless, charizard i, saved, up, you, know, a, while, to, be, able to, buy, it, i, think, i, paid, 15, bucks, or maybe, 15, to, 25, bucks, i, think, they're worth, like, 15k, now, uh, oh, my, gosh so so, i, saved, up, for, a, while, for, that, um, i would, create, my, mom, would, and, i, would, we would, i, would, actually, create, my, own reward, structures, as, well, where, it, was like, oh, if, i, do, something, good, i'll, get a, marble um, and, then, if, i, get 10, marbles, my, mom, would, give, me, like, 10 or, buy, me, a, toy, or, something, like, that so, i, was, just, interested, in, that, kind, of stuff um, but, yeah, i, don't, know, i, would, say, i was, relatively, entrepreneurial, kid, i think, that, there, are, more, entrepreneurs entrepreneurial, kids, out, there, um but, yeah, you, know, i, had, a, little, bit, of

that, in, me, that, sounds, a, little, bit, of, a incentive, gamification, that, you, impose upon, yourself by, your, mom, is, that, is, that, sound, about right yeah, i, would, create, the, incentive structures, that, my, mom, would, use, to, keep me, behaved, yeah and, then, of, course, naturally, this, just lends, itself, into, game, like, game economics, design, later, right, like, is that, is, that, a, direct, one-to-one comparison, or, am, i, reaching, for something, here, yeah, i, think, i, think there's, some, i, think, there's, some parallel, there, yeah, yeah why, um why, do, you, feel, like, you've, enjoyed, that so, much, like, most, kids, don't, want, to impose, rules, upon, themselves, i, think, it was, like, i, wanted, i, wanted, something, and i, wanted, uh

yeah, i, wanted, like, a, clear, path, towards getting, it, um so, yeah, it, was, kind, of, like, negotiation strategy, i, think, with, with, my, mom, as well, where um, yeah, um, let's, see, do, you, think, like do, do, you, like, this, sense, did, you, like the, sense, of, achievement was, that, about, it, like, uh, you, know victory, unlocked kind, of, yeah, yeah, i, think, i, think, i, do like, transparent, reward, systems, i, think um i'm, you, know, tend, to, think, about, that, a lot, with, it, actually, you, know, not, just within, the, game, you, know, the, game economy, i, have, like, a, you, know, i, would say, you, know, relatively, small, role, with but, also, you, know, the, creators, and, the in, the, community, and, how, every, everyone kind, of, aligns, incentives uh with, each, other, for, sure, i, find, that, i

find, it, fascinating, right, i, think, that's actually, right, like my understanding, of, web, 3, because, i, come you, know, i'm, not, i, don't, come, from, a technical, background, um, right, i, come from, a, gaming, uh, background, the collector's, background, right, so uh, for, me, right, like, the, well, the, huge unlock, that, i, see, with, web3, is, you, know figuring, out, how, to, align, incentives, um and, create, these, kind, of, sustainable economic, engines, to, these, open, source technologies, and so, that's, that's, like, a, lot, of you, know, how, i'm, looking, at, the, space right, now so, from, for the, out, the, onlooker, the, people, that aren't, like, diving, into, axiory, infinity every, single, day, and, kind, of, just, like knows, that, it, exists, and, that, it's

extremely, vibrant, your, role, in, actually kind, of, just, looks, like, this, great community, manager, like, this, great community, leader, who's, just, like part, of, just, like, injecting, vibes, and energy, into, into, the, community, would, you a, a, do, you, agree, with, that, uh, take, and then, b, if, you, for, somebody, that, would like, to, actually, peer, deeper, into, the scenes, what, do, you, actually, do sure, so, i, i, think, i, think, that's, fair, uh so, i, actually, come, from, the, community which, some, people, uh, might, not, realize or, remember, in, many, cases, so, right, like i, discovered, actually, just, like, a, lot, of people, just, like, much, earlier, right where, i, was, one, of, the, first, i, don't know, a couple, hundred, people, in, the discord, uh, it, was, very, small, there, were around, you, know, maybe, five, to, ten, people

there, to, kind, of, welcome, me, and, walk, me through, and, you, know, i, was, i, was, super excited, about, it, because, right, like, i, i was, i, wasn't, an, early, cryptokitty community, member, right, and, there, was always, there, was, this, notion, like, hey like, we, need, to, be, able, to, do, more, with these, things, so, it's, not, just, about breeding, and, selling, them, right, like there, has, to, be, some, emotional, value there, has, to, be, something, fun, that, we can, do, so, it's, not, just, us, dumping, cats on, each, other, right so, we, kind, of, you, know, there, was, a little, bit, of, that, already, uh, that, the space, kind, of, understood, and, you, know, so i, i, you, know, i fell, in, love, with, the, art, and, the, fact that, there, was, a, you, know, this, road, map towards, a, playable, game, um, that, seemed

achievable, um, you, know, that, really, that really, resonated, with, me, so, i, just started, you, know, i, just, came, in, and started, doing, all, the, things, that, i, i thought, i, could, uh help, with, right, so, like, you, know, helped write, um, the, original, white, paper um, i, started, doing, a, lot, of, the announcements, and, you, know, yeah community, building, right, where, in, the early, days, of, doing, unscalable, things like, getting, to, know, everyone, in, the community, sharing, the, vision, repeatedly so, people, understand, like, you, know, what we're, building, and, why um so, yeah, i, think, i, think, like, a, lot, of that, is, still, applicable, today, where um, you, know, i, do, a lot, of, stuff, around the, community, and, the, economy, i, think it's, very, interlinked, right, because right, ultimately, what's, what, creates this, sustainable, economic, engine, is

uh, right, that, people, are, spending, right for, fun, or, for, status, within, the ecosystem, right, that's, um, that's, what's kind, of, subsidizing, right, the, economy and, this, ability, for, people, to, actually earn was, it, as, simple, as, just, understanding axi, to, be, cryptokitties, but, with, a, game or, was, there, extra, you, know, magic, sauce that, that, compelled, you, in, addition, to that yeah, i, think that, was, part, of, it, right, like, we, were just, iterating, right, like, we, you, know, i think, a, lot, of, it, was, some, people, saw axey, as, a, fork, of, cryptokitties, right like, the, marketplace, contract, is, very similar, the, breeding, contract, is, very similar, uh, and, right, a, lot, of, the, early community, members, right, like, you, know kind, of, uh gave, up, on, cryptokitties, and, came, over

and, came, over, to, axi, so, right, there, was a, little, bit, of, that, yeah, a, lot, a lot, of people, who, got, it, immediately, were, like hey, like, we, there, was, three, weeks, where we, could, breed, cryptokitties, and actually, make, money, right, like, how, could this, you, know, potentially, last, forever um, so, i, think, a, lot, of, the, people, who are, thinking, through, that, framework, were actually, able, to, understand, actually yeah and, then, uh was, it, what, was, it, in, equal, parts, of like, the, fun, of, the, game, and, or, with, the token, tokenomics, the, breeding, or, was, it were, you, actually, thinking, like, oh, this is, actually, a, really, fun, game, i, i'm excited, to, play, this, or, was, it, more about, just, like, oh, there's, this, fun, like weird, breeding, economic, system, behind, it like, was, it, was, it, both, or, was, it, was

one, really, compelling, i, think, it was, a combination, right, like, yeah, the, idea that, right, like, you, would, actually, need to, spend, time, in, game, to, earn, the, right to, breed, i, think, that, was, like, right like, one, thing, that, just, locked, into place, and, and, seemed, to, make, sense, right where, you, could, basically, right, like, the problem, with, cryptokitties, was, there's this, hyperinflation, because, people, could just, like, you, know, keep, reading, uh, at will, whereas, right, the, idea, that, okay, if you, actually, sunk, human, time, effort, and skill, and, to, earn, the, right, to, be, able to, breed, right, this, would, you, know, act as, a uh, as, a, way, to, basically, right, back, each axi, with, with, real, human, time, and, effort so, i, think, that, was, a, lot, of, it, right and, then, yeah, people, were part, of, it, was, just, the, community, like

people, were, willing, to, help, people understood, that, this, was, a, community driven, thing, they, were, really, helpful they, were, making, awesome, memes um, they, were, making, awesome, you, know they, were, has, we, had, some, initial, early video, content, creators, and, stuff, like that, so, um, there's, awesome, art, um, so yeah, i, think, it's, you, know, it, was, a combination, right, of, the, community, and and right, the, art, and, what, promised, to, you know what, was, looking, like, it, would, be, a pretty, fun, game, so, i, i, i, want, to, unpack there's, so, many, things, i, want, to, unpack i, want, to, unpack, first, off, the, the community, aspect, of, it, because, isn't also, even, though, it's, axi, is, like, is, is more, than, a, community, because, this, hey the, size, of, it, is, so, incredibly, large it's, like, you, guys, correctly, in, my, mind call, it, the, axi, nation, especially

because, you, have, your, own, economy, but isn't, the, community, at, the, very, very basic, level, also, in, competition, with each, other, right, like, isn't, it, isn't, it isn't, actually, kind, of, like, a, race, for resources, and, so, like, yes, it's, very, like collaborative, and, the, discord, is, very like, community, oriented, but, also, isn't it, competitive, too there, there, is, a, lot, of, right, at, its base, level, too, right, like the, mid, uh, right, there's actually, is, a right, like, in, terms, of, the, current product, is, a, card, battle, game, where, you battle, these, pets, together, in, pvp battles, there's, a, leaderboard, right, um but, i, think, there's, there's, also, right this, this, collaborative, spirit, which, i think, is, interesting, right, like, how, do you, turn, like, what's, you, know, right, now a, pvp, experience, in, terms, of, the gameplay, and, why, is, it, so, collaborative

right, because, there, is, right, to, space, uh ownership, right, where, everyone, owns, axes right, a, lot, of, people, own, access, tokens right, um so, so, yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, right there's, there's, a, little, bit, of competition, and, it's, a, friendly competition, as, well, which, kind, of creates, some, camaraderie, and, bonding, um but, also, right, there's, this, pve component, the, pve, component, is, like everyone, in, the, axi, community, against the, world, who, doesn't, take, us, seriously who, thinks, that, nft, games, are, never gonna, work, right, we've, always, had, that kind, of, underdog, chip, on, our, shoulder and, i, think, it's, really, important, that we, maintain, that, even, as, we, get, larger did, you, just, use, pve where, the, e, is, not, just, the, game, that you're, making, but, the, whole, entire

universe is, that, what, you, just, did i, think, right, i, think, degen, once, talked about, that, right, into, like, life, in, terms of, like, pve, p, and, pve, so, um, yeah it's, an, interesting, like, tool, to, uh rally, a, community, behind, because, like there's, no, better, like, enemies, that exist, to, rally, a, community, than, like, the faceless, ones, right, and, especially, the gargantuan, faceless, ones, like, oh, yeah like, we're, gonna, take, on, everything uh, can, you, just, unpack, that, a little, bit more, about, the, significance, is, that, is that, like, an, idea, that, you, have, or, is that, more, like, a, codified, part, of, the axi, culture, about, how, like, oh, yeah, we're going, to, take, on, the, world, or, is, that, is that, just, kind, of, the, vibe, that, you, get after, you, read, between, the, lines i, think

it's, maybe, half, right, like, we, saw, in, the early, days, right, that, the, community, was kind, of, rallying, against, always, right they, had, some, kind, of, something something, or, some, someone, to, rally against, right, in, the, early, days, we, kind of, had, like, this, beef, with, the cryptokitty, community, where, they, thought oh, like, this, is, just, a, cryptokitty, clone right, they're, never, gonna, do, anything, um right, so, yeah, there's, always, been, i think, great, like, and, from, the, early, days we, saw, that, that, was, like, you, know, a good, strategy, and, i, think, it's, also, true that, right, like, people, because, axi, is, so cute, i, think, uh they, don't, take, it, seriously, um, and, it's like, i, think, it's, just, been, us, proving right, the, doubters, and, the, haters, wrong like, month, after, month, uh, over, the, over this, journey, and, i, think, right, that's

like, part, yeah, it's, part, you, know, it's part, of, the, fun, i, think, um, and so, yeah, i, think, it's, part, of, our, culture and, i, think, it's, also, something, that, you know, the, community, leaders, not, just myself, right, community, leaders understand, is, is, is, an, effective strategy, uh, for, getting, everyone, on, the same, page i, want, to, keep, going, down, this, route, but there's, a, question, i, have, that, i, think if, i, don't, ask, it, now, i, might, lose, it and, that, is, um, a, lot, of, the, games, that, i play, like, diablo, both, two, and, three included, uh, borderlands, comes, to, mind, a lot, of, these, games, and, just, uh, end, up all, in, the, same, state, which, is, like grinding, uh, and, me, personally, that's kind, of, when, i, like, tap, out, of, the, game it's, like, okay, i'll, go, through, level

zero, through, like, like, 99, but, once, i'm at, 99, like, i'm, out, like, i'm, done, with the, game, like, i, don't, want, to, grind, the same, things, over, and, over, and, over, again uh, have, you, have, you, guys, thought, about this, actually, and, how, have, you, like, keep kept, people, engaged, post, grind, like, once you, get, to, the, grinding, grinding, stage how, do, you, get, keep, people, entertained yeah, i, mean, i, i, think, obviously, like, the fact, that, you, have, ownership, of, the things, that, you're, grinding, for, i, think uh, you, know, helps, right, where, you, can potentially, right, convert, it, into, into something, that's, helping, you, in, real life, i, think, that, all, games, with, staying power, have, right, like, basically had, an, interesting, social, elements, uh to, the, ecosystem, or, right, with, wow, wow

guilds, right, there, are, people, who, play wow not, because, they, find, wow, enjoying, but because, all, their, friends, that, they've met, online, are, playing, wow, so, it's, like if, they, quit, wow, they're, going, to, lose all, their, friends, right, so, the, the social, the, social, systems, are, really important, and yeah, i, think, like, right, with, axi, right it's, like, people they, just, want, they, love, being, part, of the, community, they, love, learning, about web3, there's, always, something, fun, to look, forward, to, right, like, we're constantly, iterating, and, building, new experiences, on, top, of, the, axis, right like, we're, the, the, current, product, is actually, our, second, battle, second version, of, the, battle, system, we're coming, out, with, the, third, version, of, the battle, system, so, everyone's, like, like, we have, this, like, 1v3, meme, um, stuff, like that, right, and, then um, yeah, it's, just, like, we're, building

out, in, public, so, people, feel, like they're, building, together, that, they're collaborating, together, that, everyone, you know, that, there, are, these, connections and, it's, just, far, more, than, a, game, right it's, it's, a, place, to, have, fun, to, bond with, each, other, to, flex, your, crypto, uh kind, of, extravagance, um, so, it, has, it, has a, it's, actually, is, rewarding, right so, people, ask, always, ought, to, come, to this, topic, right, it's, like, is, actually fun, right, and, i've, actually, we've, talked to, you, and, i've, listened, to, some, of, like the thinking, from, the, founder, of, eve, online and, right, and, he, talks, about, it, is, like right, like people, talk, about, fun, but, actually, what games, should, ultimately, strive, to, be, is to, be, rewarding, in, the, same, way, that, we

find, our, lives, rewarding, right, so, if, you talk, to, a any, random, person, right, they, might, they probably, right, like, they, might, not, find their, life, fun, all, the, time, on, a day-to-day, basis, right, that, might, not actually, even, be, good, be, good, right, fun is, probably, a, poor, thing, to, optimize, for right, but, ultimately, most, people, find their, lives, worth, living, and, and rewarding, uh, through, through, different uh you, know, to, different, forms, of, kind, of, i guess, value, if, that, makes, sense, there's right, there's, there's, social, there's economic, um, right, there's, building, a legacy, right, and, i, think, and, and, i, think the, thing, about, axi, is, that, it's, it's actually, right, like, harnessing, this, kind of, like idea, of, ikigai, right, where you're, you're

people, feel, like, they're, part, of, this movement, they're, building, something that's, uh, substantive, and, important, and yeah, they're, having, fun, and, making friends, while, doing, it, there's, a, line that, i, remember joe, rogan, saying, once, upon, a, time, where he, was, recounting, the, story, of, this, uh person, that, he, met, that, had, this, like kind, of, basic, like, production, behind, the scenes, drop, at, some, like, like, live, music venue, i, don't, know, is, irrelevant, um but, and, it's, like, kind, of, this, normal guy, but, all, but, he, was, like, in, some, like insane, top, 10, tier, world, of, warcraft player, and, like, the, line, that, this individual, left, with, joe, rogan, was, that i, am, such, a, nobody in, the, real, world, but, in, world, of

warcraft, i'm, like, one, of, the, biggest celebrities, uh, and, like, joe, rogan, was harping, on, the, fact, that, the, guy, was talking, about, how, he's, nothing, in, the real, world, and, like, the, contrast, that, he was, giving, was, like, oh, yeah, he, gave, up he, gave, up, his, real, world, identity, in form, of, this, like, fake, world, of, warcraft identity, and, he, just deposited, all, of, his, like, you, know mental, energy, and, mental, motivation, into this, fake, world, this, like, this, world, of warcraft, world, but, i, i, think, when, you uh, kind, of, uh, take, a, context, of, what, you just, stated, where, like, no, world, of warcraft's, not, supposed, to, be, fun, it's supposed, to, be, rewarding, and, then, also we, talk, about integrating, assets, into, things, like ethereum, where, you, know, there's, usdc, on ethereum, which, is, connected, to, the

federal, reserve, and, how, can, that, be, fake right, and, so, like, you, know, the, game, the thing, the, assets, that, you, find, in, your game, are, just, one, steps, away, from, being the, the, reserve, currency, of, of, the, world how, can, that, be, fake, at, all, uh, and, so like, the, the, takeaway, that, i, just, got out, from, what, you, just, said, is, that, you know with, games, not, supposed, to, be, fun they're, supposed, to, be, rewarding, like we're, actually, trying, to, recreate the, real, world, but, in, the, digital, world right, we're, not, we're, not, trying, to, make we, are, not, trying, to, make, the, digital world, fun, you're, trying, to, make, the digital, world, real is, it, i, think, that's, also, that's, also, a functioning, definition, of, the, metaverse right, is, totally, right right, this, this, idea, that, our digital, identities, our, digital, items, our

digital, experiences, and, lives, are starting, to, merge and, right, like, become, just, as, important and, just, as, substantive, and, rewarding, as our, lives, in, the, physical, world yeah, i, think, there's, a hopefully, a, transition, happening, where like, games, are, no, longer, just, like supposed, to, just, serve, you, like, dopamine on, a, platter, but, they're, supposed, to serve, you, emotions, of, all, types, like responsibility, like, the, the, things, that you, would, find, out, in, the, real, world like, loss, i, think, there's, a, big component, of, eve, online, which, is, loss where, like, you, go, and, you, build, your ships, and, then, like, you, get, like hijacked, by, pirates, and, you, lose, all, of your, stuff like, that's, that's, a, real, emotion, that you're, going, to, feel, as, a, result, of, that and, it's, not, fun, at, all, but, it's, very

very, real yeah, the, you, know, the, mo, right, the, more the, sustainable game, economies, right, are, going, to, mimic uh, parts, of, life, that, we, don't, like, um in, interesting, ways, and, that's, also right, it's, like, as someone, who, works, on, games, right, that's something, to, think, about, is, like, right like, how, close, to you, know, everyday physical, life, do, you, want, these, games, to be, um, and, what, is, there, is, there, right is, there, some, hybrid, that, is, like, a, nice i, think, uh, middle, zone, that, it, might, be you, know, preferable, um so, yeah, it's, it's, i, think, that's, where, a lot, of, the, design, space, is there's, another, line, that, i, hear, also from, also, on, joe, rogan, but, this, one, came from, elon, musk, where, he, was, talking

about, why, instagram, did, bitter, but, uh has, got, bigger, than, twitter, and, elon musk, said, it's, limbic, resonance, as, in, uh instagram, resonates, with, people's, like more, reptilian, brain, much, better, than twitter, does, twitter, makes, you, think, it makes, you, like, actually, use, your, brain instagram, doesn't, you, just, you, just, vibe in, instagram, makes, you, feel, emotions, uh and, so, maybe, the, version, of, the metaverse, that, delivers reality, rather, than, just, dopamine, is, the one, that, humans, gravitate, for, because we're, striving, for, that uh uh, that, same, kind, of, uh, feeling, right we're striving, for, that, you, know responsibility, all, the, things, that, make us, human, uh, and, so, maybe, it's, the successful, games, of, the, world, are, the ones, that, don't, just, deliver, dopamine, on

a, platter, but, are, the, ones, that, uh, allow people, to, like, deep, use, their, deeper parts, of, their, brain yeah, especially, the, ones, right, the, ones where, it's, where, people, feel, okay, i think, spending, 12, hours, a, day, in, right it, can't, just, be right, all, all, pleasure um, speaking, of, joe, rogan, we, were, joe rogan, axey, was, actually, mentioned, on, joe rogan, really, uh, last, week, like, he, was, he was, looking, into, it, you, know, looking, at the, the, website, he, had, it, up, uh, so, we were, trying, to, get, in, touch, with, him, um but, that, was, like, that, was, an, amazing moment, for, the, community, yeah, i, think joe, rogan's, like, on, the, cusp, of, just like, going, down, a, lot, of, the, web, 3 rabbit, holes, but, and, everyone, wants, to talk, to, joe, rogan, obviously, uh, but, it's just, i, think, it's, just, going, to, take, one

of, us, to, break, open, the, doors, so, if, it's you, guys, congratulations, if, that, if that's, coming, your, way, that'd, be, pretty cool it's, interesting, because, right, i, think the, the, flow, of, the, conversation, was, hey like, you, know, what, do you, think, about meta, and, what, you, know, facebook, formerly facebook, is, now, doing, and, then, right somehow, right, it's, like, right, like rather, than, showing, anything, that, meta was, doing, they, actually, showed, axe infinity, so, uh, if, yeah, if, we, can, be right, if, we, can, be, the, poster, child, of you, know, this, new, digital, revolution that's, happening, um, i, think, i, think that's, going, to, be, awesome, for, for, us for, for, for, ethereum for, everyone, so, how, did, you, go, from, like one, of, just, the, early, members, inside, the discord, to, an, actual, team, member i, just, you, know, i, showed, up, and, i, saw

all, these, all, this, work, that, needed, to be, done and, i, started, doing, it, you, know, in, the early, days, i, didn't, get, paid, we, didn't even, have, we, didn't, have, money, we, didn't have, eth uh so, you, know, i, was, getting, paid, in, axes uh, initially, ended, up, you, know, working out, really, well, like, you, know, some, of those, axes, are, super, rare, right, now, um so, yeah, you, know, just, started, figuring out, you, know, what, needed, to, be, done, so, a lot, of, the, initial, team, members, they're vietnamese, right, uh, mas, mune, who's, like our, artistic, genius uh, chung, who's, like, our, ceo, he's, an engineer, um, they're, vietnamese, so, right there's, you, know, there's, a, little, bit, of a, language, barrier, right, so, i, thought hey, like, i, could, come, in, and, and, you know, do, some, communication, uh, you, know

try, to, try, to, build, uh, excitement, and understanding, of, how, big, this, could, be within, the, community, when, you saw, the, potential, behind, actually infinity, did, you what, what, in, what, potential, did, that forum, come, in, it's, like, oh, there, could be, a lot, of, people, playing, this, game, or like, oh, these, axes, could, be, really really, valuable, like, which, one, was, the one, driving, you, yeah, i, think, i, think it's, a, combination, um, right, like, i, think also, like, your the, the, limbic, system, thing also, like, resonates, because, it's, like hey, like, these, are, cute, like, people, are gonna, like, this, um, this, has, the, chance to, really, change, gaming, we, understood that, they're, right, like we, understood, that, there, are, problems with, gaming, um in, those, early, days, i, know, because, we

wrote, the, white, paper, in, about, february or, march, or, 2018, and, we, talked, about some, of, the, problems, um, in, gaming, right that right it's, right, like, basically, right in, traditional, gaming, right, now majority, of, the, value is, not, going, to, the, people, that, are creating, a, majority, of, the, value, right uh, the, app, stores, the, game, publishers are, taking, like, north, of, 50, percent um, so, it's, not, even, the, game, it's, not the, money, isn't, even, going, to, the, game developers, right, uh, it's, a, lot, of, it, is going, to, these, to, these, middlemen, um, so that's, why, i, write, like, crypto, is, just like, right, like, so, textbook, just definition, right, this, is, not, advanced stuff, it's, like, wherever, there, are, huge extractive, middlemen, right, you, remove that, middleman, and, you, give, it, to, the

builders, and, the, community, members, um, so right, this, is, actually, is, just, that principle, i, think, applied, to, a, game, and i, mean, so, much, of, people, uh, so, many people, must, have, come, into, the, axi ecosystem more, or, less, with uh that, mindset, or, something, similar, to, it as, opposed, to, like, oh, this, is, going, to make, me, rich, mindset, because, like while, actually, definitely, started, off the, conversation, of, like, oh, crypto gaming, is, like, a, financial, opportunity it, didn't, start, there like, so have, you, noticed, since, the, mooning, of the, axs, token, a, difference, in, the, people that, come, into, the, axia, nation, i'm assuming, you, have alright, this, is, something, that, i, talk, to peter, pan, about, a, lot, right, is community, building, in, a, bull, market, and

community, building, in, a, bear, market fundamentally, different, problems sometimes require, fundamentally, different, people uh, but, yeah, it's, something, that, we we, think, about, a, lot, right, it's, like right, you, get, this, right, like, bear markets, you'll, have, a, small, number, of missionaries, and, then, right, the, entire world, finds, out, about, you, in, a, in, a, bull market, and, maybe, right, the, the, cycle repeats, and, right, you, end, up, with, more missionaries, than, you, did, at, the, end, of the, last, cycle, or, the, beginning, of, the new, cycle, um, so, yeah, it's, like, nature right, it's, like, it's, like, nature's healing, but, uh, yeah, definitely, as, right our, audience, becomes, more, mainstream, uh you, start, to, run, into, you, know different, types, of, problems, right, like

you, know, gamers, are, not, super, nice, as, a demographic right, so, you, start, to, offer, it, like, our you, know, your, your, community, starts, to become, closer, to, like a, league, of, legends, community, in, some cases, or, some, of, them, are, starting, to start, to, become, like, that, uh, but, i, also think, that, a, lot, of, them, are, you, know able, to, learn, and, understand, right, that this, is, uh, this, is, a, movement, and, a, lot of, them, are, receptive, to, the, education and, um, and, that's, also, why, it's important, right, like, i, think, a lot, of the, projects, that, are, trying, to, copy, us they, don't, have, this, like, older, right these, veterans, who, are, going, to, come, in and you, know, basically, tell, the, new, kids what's, up, and, what, this, project, is really, about yeah, is, there, like, a, schism, between, the

og's, and, the, new, members yeah, i, would, say, some, of, the, some, of, the ogs, are, a, little, bit, reclusive, and hesitant, uh, to, you, know, engage, with, the with, the, newcomers, there, are, others, that are, there, like you, know, that, are, you, know, more, public facing, and, you, know think, that, and, prioritize, really educating, the, new, faces, um, but, yeah, like just, like, within, any, society, right, it's kind, of, like, oh, like, you, know, people come, in, and, uh you, know there, can, be, like, class, it's, like, where it's, almost, like, class rivalry, right, and, generational, rivalry yeah how, have, you, guys, uh, have, you, guys, had to, deal, with, that, or, is, that, something that, has, been, like, it's, a, maybe, a, just, a small, friction, or, is, it, actually

something, that, you, guys, have, had, to address, intentionally just, the, differences, between, the generations yeah, i, think, like, i, think, empowering people, to, build, bonds, um, i, think, like the, content, creators, uh, like, the, og content, creators, too, right, like, they they, do, a, good, job, because, they, also, are like, they, see, them, as, their, followers and, and and, stuff, like, that, so um, it's, something, i, it's, something, that i, think, is, a, difficult, uh it's, a, difficult, kind, of, phenomenon that's, happening, but, it's, also, it's, a luxury, in, many, cases, because, a, lot, of projects, they, don't, they, don't, have, any of, that, right, they, just, have, maybe, i don't, know, a, very, small, community, and many, of, them, might, just, be, super, new, and only, focused, on, the, token, go, up, so

i, would, imagine, there's, some, like dynamic, tribe, dynamic, where, you, have, the village, elders, and, then, you, have, like the, punk, kids and, the, kids, want, something, that, the village, elders, don't, and, maybe, the village, elders, know, best, but, you, can't only, listen, to, the, village, elders because, like, you, gotta, also, include, the punk, kids, right, it's, politics, it's politics, right, like, and, it's, it's, now like, i, feel, like, i'm, a, politician, right like, i'm, i'm, a i, have, right, like, we, have, consist constituents, right, and, i, think, that's what, this, is yeah, it's, we're, starting, to, see, the, rise of, these, kind, of, opt-in, nations, right where, it's, not, like, right, like, the management, is, still, right, like uh mostly, top, down, but, right, like, it's

opt-in, right, so i, think, that's, all, that's, what, we're starting, to, see, more, so, than, like, fully decentralized co-management, structures, is, right, like you, get, to, choose, who, you're uh who, your, leaders, are, which, i, think, right is, like, that, right, to, choose, i, think, is is, a, key, distinction, um, yeah, well, and, i think, we'll, also, start, to, see, right, like right, like, more, more, decentralized contribution, creation, building, um, and also, maybe, yeah, potentially, kind, of, like decision, making, for, the, for, the, future the, for, the, you, know, the, future direction, of, projects, but, it's, i, think there's, a, lot, of, research, and experimentation, that's, been, going, uh, on going, into, that, kind, of, stuff, and i, think, like, the, optimal, i, think, the optimal, strategy, is, also, i, think, vitalik

talks, about, this, right, is, like, there, are different, communities, that, uh, want different, levels, of um, right, different, trade-offs, if, that makes, sense like, the, axi, discord, is, the, largest discord, in, the, world, if, i'm, getting, my numbers, right, and, i, would, imagine managing, that, is, just, an, absolute nightmare, and, if, you, call, this, thing, a nation, and, you're, calling, what, you're doing, politics how, are, all, these, different, factions organized, like, are, there, is, it, a representative, democracy, or, do, you, have like, you, know, the, content, creators, over here, and, then, you, have, like, the, players over, here but, then, you, have, like, the, casual players, over, here, and, the, advanced players, over, here, and, then, you, have, like the, actual, builders, like, how, how, is, this how, is, this, nation, organized yeah, so, our, discord, is, interesting, right

because, our, discord, is, actually, an interesting, example, of, how, we've attempted, at, least, to, tackle, this, in, the short, term, where, we, actually, have, a collab, land integration, so, you, basically, right collab, land, will, read, your, wallet, see what, nfts, you, have, in, your, ronin, wallet and, and, then, assign, you, a, roll, right, so if, you, have, three, axes, you, at, least, get to, speak in, the, general, chat, if, you, have, 10, axes you, might, be, able, to, speak, in, the economy, chat, right, if, you're, a, landowner you, get, the, whole, you, get, to, speak, in the, in, the, land, holder, chat, right, um, so yeah, it's, kind, of, right, we, have, these you, know, uh, parallel, forums, uh, for discourse, um, and, then, there, are, people who, float, among, among, them, and, yeah, we have, community, you, know, moderators, and volunteers, that, um, kind, of

you, know, guard, dog, uh, the, discord, right where, you're, trying, to, make, sure, that people, aren't, like, misleading, people people, aren't, trying, to, scam, the, the, new players, and, um, and, things, like, that, so it's, fascinating, i've, spent, a, lot, of, my life, in, actually, discord, um and, yeah, i mean, discord, as, a, product changed, my, life, i, think, i, actually yeah, so, i, i'm, i, know, i, am, still, i, think the, number, one, um like buy, messages, in, the, actually, discord with, i, think, like, you, know, a couple hundred, thousands my, god, wow, that's, that's, insane, you, said you, talked, about, guard, dogs, in, the discord, make, sure, that, people, aren't scamming, people, if, we're, using, a, nation metaphor, that, feels, like, the, police yeah, it's, like, more, like, vigilante maybe justice, little, bit, maybe, we're

trying, right, we're, trying, yeah, we're trying, to, like, we're, trying, to, figure out, like, i, think, this, is, a, question, that we, think, about, a, lot, in, conjunction, with the, rest, of, the, entire, ecosystem, is, like right, like, what, is, the, level, what, is, the correct, level, of, like, community, right like, the, community, driving, some, some initiative, and, norms, uh, within, within the, ecosystem, and, you, know, what, needs, to be, kind, of, like, more, of, more, of, a, firm you, know, something, closer, to, a, rule, or, a law, right, right yeah, that's, that's, nuts, um, i, can't imagine, how, how, much, of, a, how, tall, of, an order, that, is, do, you, ever, fear, that, like what, happens, if, discord, gum, goes, down like, discord, has, gone, down, at, times, like what, would, it, what, would, the, oxy, nation do, if, discord, like, died, for, a, week, yeah

so, i, will, i, will, point, out, a, data, point our monthly, 30-day, volume, topped, out at, the, same, week, that, we, hit the, discord, max right, so, it's, like, we, solved, right, like we, were, able, to, build, this, you, know, evm scaling, solution, to, scale, our, game, to millions, of, players, and, then, what's, the thing, that, might, be, holding, us, back right, now, is, like, the, 800, 000, cap, on, the discord, community, right, because, i, feel like, being, a, part, of, the, community, is such, a, fundamental, part, of, the experience, um, that, right, like, you're probably, you, know, you're, not, getting, as engaged, community, members, if, you're having, a, lower, activation, hard activation, rate, in, terms, of, like, i, don't know, growth, marketing, terms, right without, having, people, actually, able, to

join, that, main, discord, so, i'll, i, will say, that, it's, interesting, and, yeah, like uh, we're, definitely, overexposed, and overly, reliant, on, discord, i, think it, you, know, like, there, are, some, web three you, know alternatives, that, are, starting, to, maybe pop, up, but, it's, it's, still, so, early, but i, do, think, that, that, is, right, that, is the, next, wave, of innovation, i, think, right, around, like basically, social, coordination, tooling right, so, we're, starting, to, see, you, know i, don't, know, uh, these, token, gated, forums um, started, starting, to, pop, up, so, which might, be, like, an, early, iteration, of, that they're, not, quite, as real, time, as, discord, discord, right, like the, server, stuff, is, like, you, know, it's gonna, be, hard, to, it's, hard, to, get

something, to, that, to, that, level, um quickly, and, right, there's, a, reason, i guess, right, that, and, maybe, discord, is inherently, unscalable, right, like, why, why don't, they, why, won't, they, let, us, uh, get to, get, hit, a, million, in, our, discord right, it's, it's, that, must, be, a, very, very very, is, it, must, it, must, take, like, a, lot of, like, server, power, right to, keep, that, thing, going totally, yeah, it's, like, if the breaking, of, discord, while, you, guys, are doing, the, all-time, high, in, volumes, on, on ronin is, like, well, we, actually, got, web, 3, to scale, more, than, web, 2., like, web, 2, broke that, was, that, was, just, a, paradox, yeah that, was, a, paradox, i, felt, i, felt, like that's, those, that, was, interesting, i

think, it, shows, right, that, we're, facing, a lot, of, the, we're, facing, a, lot, of, the problems, that, these, nft, games, are, gonna face, in, a, year, two, years, um, we're, facing them, first, and, we're, gonna, yeah, we're gonna, have, to, solve, them, first, for, them for, everyone, else, so as, the, axs, price, just, went, absolute bonkers, of, the, one, of, the, resulting downstream, impacts, of, that, is, like, so much angel, investment, seed, investment, seed round, startups, came, as, a, result, of, that like, once, you, it, kind, of, felt, like, you know, when, bitcoin, went, from, zero, dollars to, a, thousand, dollars, all, of, a, sudden the, next, thing, that, happened, was, that, we had, like, 10, 000, bitcoin, forks, and, now we're, kind, of, seeing, the, same, thing, like axs, went, from, like, a, three, million dollar, market, cap, which, is, basically

nothing, to, where, it, is, now, in, the multi-billions, uh, and, now, after, as, a result, of, this, we, have, like, an, infinity number, of, play-to-earn, games, being, like invested, in, right, now like are, you if, you, had, to, guess, what, percentage, of those will, have any, sort, of, like, meaningful, adoption like, five, percent yeah, probably, like, very, small, number yeah, around, like, two, to, two, to, five percent, sounds, sounds, directionally correct, i, think, we'll, might, have, to, see a, lot, of, consolidation, and, this, also goes, for, the, guilds, right, we, also, saw, an explosion, of, funding, rounds, for, guilds for, the, games, uh, so, yeah, we, might, need to, see, consolidation, around, that, and yeah, it's, going, to, be, hard, for, all, of them, to, succeed, but, yeah, i, think, like, we

will, also, may, see, right, some, of, some important, projects, come, out, come, out, of this, class, right, i, think, that's, you, know generally, how, crypto, works, um, right where, even, ethereum, was, you, know, you, i think, funded, you, know, by, uh, by, bitcoin right, like, that, that's, that's, how, you paid, in, the, ico, um, i, think, so, yeah, it's you, know, it, it's, it, can, be, overwhelming um, sometimes, right, and, it, seems, like yeah, we, everything, got, comped, against, us um, and, i, think, like, people, don't understand, people, are, like, hey, like, yeah if, you, just, make, a, game, with, better graphics, like, it, should, it, should, be, it should, have, a, higher, market, cap, right but, they, don't, they, don't, understand like, the, work, that's, put, gone, into, this in, terms, of, the, community, building, as well, and, the, thinking, around, you, know

the, economy, and, um nourish, uh, kind, of, yeah, nourishing, these uh, content, creators, and, ever, and everything, the, the, relationships, and social, capital, in, this, network, but, yeah i, think, you, know, we, also, are, you, know extremely, bullish, on, and, you, know, these player-owned, digital, nations, uh, right this, you, know, it's, part, of, the, vision for, ronan, is, to, be, this, scalable, place for, right, some, of, the next, generation, of, these, experiences, so of, those, like, 2.5, to, five, percent, of these, played, earned, game, startups say, say, we're, on, the, other, side, of, this and, like, that, five, percent, exists, and, we see, which, ones, they, are, what, do, you think, will, be, the, thing, that, they, needed to, have, gotten, right, in, order, to, make, it through, that, filter, i, think, it's, a

combination, honestly, a, combination, of things, uh which, which, i, think, is, what, is, going, to make, it, so, hard, because, some, people might, get, some, people, might, get, the community, rights, and, some, people, might get, the, economy, right, and, some, people might, get, the, scaling, right, uh, some people, might, get, the, art, and, the gameplay, right, uh, but, i, think, putting, it all, together, is, great, where, the, where the, magic, happens um i, think, yeah, web, 3, community, building, i mean, i'm, you, know, maybe, i'm, biased people, everyone, tends, to, think, what, they do, is, is, important, so, i, think, web, 3 community, building, is, is, you, know, is, a is, a, difficult, journey, uh, that, requires like, blood, sweat, and, tears, and, there, are no, shortcuts, um, i, think, the, art, uh, it has, to, be, like, the, right, type, of, game, i think, like, like, one, of, the, one, of, the

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uh, inferring, to, uh, and, kind, of, reminds me, of, um, a, conversation, i, was, having with, a, dc, investor, where, uh, nfts, when like, uh, crypto, prices, go, down significantly, nfts, don't, they, don't really, they're, not, the, first, thing, that people, go, to, like, liquidate, when, they need, to, cover, their, margin, positions which, many, people, in, d5, have, um can, you, do, do, you, have, your, own experiences, about, like, your, emotional attachments, to, axes, that, you, might, be able, to, share, sure, so, yeah, there, are, a bunch, of, axes, that, i, would, never, that, i consider, priceless, that, i, would, never sell, right, like, my, first, axi, number, 707 uh, right, that, was, what, kind, of introduced, me, to, the, universe, and started, my, journey, right, like, i, bought that, thing, i, thought, it, was, awesome, and

right, just, started, i, felt, like, okay i'm, part, of, this, project, now, and, i, have to, and, i, have, to, start, working, um, so yeah, i, think, great, like, that, emotional utility, right, i'm, not, sure, if, that's, a term, but, let's, i, think, i, think, it, makes sense, right, there's, this, emotional utility, where, right, like, right, nfts don't, work, if, everyone, is, buying, nfts, to try, to, make, money, right, like, uh, it's just, the, the, the, the laws, of, the, universe, don't, work, like that, right, there, has, to, be, right, there has, to, be, uh, this notion, that, right, you're, kind, of spending, money, there, are, people, who, are spending, money, on, nfts, rather, than, just every, everyone, can, cannot, be, an, investor right, um, just, like, yeah, i, think, we

talked, about, this, right, like, like, when you, buy, a, pokemon, card right, i, you, you, buy, a, pokemon, card because, you, just, need, it, right, like the, fact, that, you, there, is, liquidity, for it, right, like, can, allow, you, to, justify spending, you, know, a, large, amount, um so, i, think, that's, a, lot, of, where the, futures, and, right, like, what, people what, people, need, to understand, i, think, this, is, also something, that, we, don't, do, a, necessary, a good, job, of, communicating, as, a, space to, the, public, right, the, public, sees, this you, know, they, see, us, as, uh, right, these degenerates, that, are, right, online, right like, me, and, all, the, headlines, about, are about, people, making, millions, of, dollars

or, whatever, and uh, we, have, to, do, a, better, job, of communicating, right, the, emotional utility, the, emotional, aspect, um, the pride, and, joy, of, showing, off, these, nfts uh i, think, i, think, that's, super, important and, um in, in, the, education, process, and, and you, know, expanding, the, community, and getting, more, people, involved has, this, at, all, turned, into, a, more, like concrete, strategy, with, the, future, of, the axi, ecosystem, like, you, guys, are, trying to, inject, emotion, into, the, game yeah, i, think, things, like, right, like collectors, badges um, right, like uh so, it, was, an, interesting, there, was, an

interesting, change, that, we, made, where, by accident, right, like, when, axes, were fighting, in, battle, they, stopped, making facial, expressions, like grim, stopped, grimacing, or, uh, when they're, attacking, or getting, attacked, and, that, was, like, a, big issue, for, our, players, right, so, we realized, that, right, like, these, small little, details, that, make, axes, more lifelike, they're, they're, really important, so um, i, think uh, axes, right, like, for, example, if, you log, in and, you, haven't, logged, in, for, two, weeks right, your, axes, should, be, right, like treat, uh acting, like, a, dog, or, a, puppy, when, you get, home, after, a, long, break, right, that so, i, watched, the, documentary, like, why, do we, love, dogs, why, do, humans, love, dogs

it's, not, actually, because, we, think, that they're, cute, right, because, there, are actually, a, lot, of, people, who, have, dogs that, are, kind, of, objectively, ugly, and they, still, love, them, just, as, much, as right, dogs, that, are, actually, objectively cute, right, and, a, lot, of, the, reason, that people, love, dogs is, because, dogs, actually, love, humans dogs show, love, and, affection, to, humans, they reciprocate, it, i, mean, that's, actually what, makes, us, love, our, dogs, the, most right, so, basically, in, order, for, people to, love, their, axes, even, more we, have, to, basically, create, systems where the, axes, actually, can, show, affection to, their, owners, um, so, that, was, a conversation, that, i, had, with, with, like

the, art, team, and, the, animation, team and, they, seemed, really, receptive, to, it so as, a, developer, that, sounds, like, a, really fun, project, uh, hey, make, these, nfts, these animated, nfts make, them, show, love, towards, the, people that, that, own, them, and, like we, we could, go, like, we, talked, about, how, like the, you, talked, about, how, the, nft industry, doesn't, really, do, a, very, good job, of, um, advertising, the, emotional, bond that, people, have, to, their, um, to, their like, you, know, nfts, and, the, external world, just, kind, of, thinks, that, there's these, pixels, with, price, tags, but, also, if we, really, want, to, optimize, for, that price, tag we, would, probably, be trying, to, create, nfts, that, are, more, like

stronger, uh, conduits, of, love, between owner, and, nft, like, this, probably, would be, good, for, the, valuations, of, these things i, think, so, right, like, ultimately, yeah there, has, to, be, right, like, combination of, aesthetics utility, and, scarcity, right, and, that's where, i, think, that's, what, i, wrote, this about, this, and, i, think, like, 2018, right it's, like, the, triple, threat, framework for, adding, value, to, nfts, um, and, yeah like, you, know, we, we, i, think, people, kind of, understand, the, scarcity, part, they kind, of, they, you, know, they, understand the, aesthetics, and, i, think, gaming, right in, general, is, an, answer, uh, an, attempt, to answer, right, like, what, does, what, does true, utility, for, these, things, look, like um, so, that's, that, can, be, that, can, be

seen, as, okay, like, you're, using, these things, in, a, game, um, but, i, think, it's also, right, like, you, see, these as, part, of, your, life, um so, yeah, uh, it's, it's, really, important, um so, they're, actually, the, people, the virtual, beings, industry, has, started reaching, out, to, me, a, lot, over, the, last year, right, what, because, i, think, what they, see, is, okay, when, people, think, about ai, or, intelligent yeah, basically, like, uh, intelligent characters, right, a, lot, of, people, they think, about, okay, like, how, do, we, get, a hologram, or, like, a, virtual, influencer, or that, right, like, uh, that, seems, lifelike but, i, think, where, even, lower, hanging fruit, is, how, can, you, make a, virtual, pet

that, is, more, lifelike, because, the barrier, right, the, the, there's, no, like turing, test, right, like, with, a, pet, right it's, it's, like it's, it's it's, a, lot, easier, i, think, to, simulate that, that, experience, of, a, real, pet, than it, is, to, ex, to, simulate, the, experience of, speaking, and, interacting, with, a, real human, being, i, think, um, so, i, think, the virtual, being, space, or, the, virtual life space, is, actually, really, really interested, in, axi, so there, is, definitely, some, stuff, to explore, around, that, as, well earlier, in, the, conversation, we, were talking, about, how, uh good, games, especially, good, web, 3, games have, migrated, from, just, like, trying, to

serve, dopamine, on, a, platter, to, its players, to, creating, much, more, realism and we, talked, a, little, bit, about, like, loss right, like, when, you, lose, in, a, game, like you, should, actually, have, lost, something either, monetary, value, or, something scarce, because, you, know, there's, there's there, is, no, joy, without, loss, right, you can't, there, is, no, such, thing, as one-sided, happiness, you, have, to, have sadness, to, also, have, happiness, uh, and, i i, think, and, you, also, talked, about, how like you, know, the the, uh, the, working, definition, for, the metaverse, is, something, that, is, just, the digital, world, but, just, trying, to replicate, uh replicate, our, actual, world, but, in, in virtual, format, and, so, like, my, mind, is going, towards, like, the, version, of, the metaverse, where, like, i, think, the, way, to

onboard, people, into, the, metaverse, is like, find, ways, to, optimize, for, love right, because, that's, at, the, end, of, the day, that's, all, what, people, want, like, you know, we, all, like, some, people, get, trapped in, the, money, game, but, really, people forget, that, you know, money, is, just, you know, means, to, an, end, and, usually everyone's, end, is, the, same, thing, which is, love, uh, and, so, maybe, that's, the, alpha for, any, of, the, you, know, web, 3, game developers, here, is, like, yeah, you're actually, trying, to, build, love, into, your game, i, think, yeah, it's, it's, right, like these, these, real, emotions, right, it's like, uh, i, don't, know, what, is, the, what are, the, hierarchy, of, needs, um, what, is like, ikigai, right, i, think, like, some people, they, they, say, that, axi, is interesting, because yeah, it, operates, right, at, the

intersection, of, what, i, want, to, spend, my time, doing, what, i, enjoy, doing, or, what, i feel, super, passionate, about, um so, yeah, i, think, yeah, replicating, these right, like, we, talked, about, right, the people, people, they, say, oh, like, nft, games they're, not, fun, enough, right, which, and fun, is, some, kind, of, like, arbitrary, ideal but, actually all, right, you, know, the, founder, of, eve online he, says, like, don't, optimize, or, don't, you know, chase, fun, as, a, as, a, developer, right it's, like, you, actually, want, to, you, know create professions, within, your, ecosystem, right like, you, want, to, create a, rewarding, experience, um, and, i, think right, like, yeah, i, think, right, like, what

we're, seeing, is, that, our, digital, lives are, becoming, rewarding, in, the, same, ways that, our physical, lives, are, hard, they're difficult but, we, ultimately, most, most, of, us, find them, rewarding, in, some, way, or, or, another do, you, do, you, think, that software, there's, that, meme, that, software is, eating, the, world, right, and, now, with ethereum, and, smart, contracts, software, is also, eating, finance, for, like, the, first time, ever and there's, generally, been, the, pattern, that anything, that, software, touches, it generally, improves, uh, and, so, now, we, have this, concept, of, like, the, metaverse, where software, is, just, straight, up, eating reality, uh, and, outputting, like, a different, one, uh, that, perhaps, is

improved, like, we, could, it, could, get, real dystopian, but, it, could, also, get, real like, utopian, as, well, like, do, you, do, you think, that, like do, you, do, you, agree, with, the, trajectory that, like, software, is, producing, a, new version, of, reality, that, perhaps, is better, because, that's, how, we, can, code for, that, we, can, code, it, to, be, better i, wouldn't, yeah, it's, hard, to, say, better um but, what, i'll, what, i'll, say, is, right, it it, i, think it's, creating, this, base, level, of access, to, ideas, relationships, and communities, right, where, for, most, of human, history we, were forced

almost, right, to, basically, be, a, part, of the, town, the, community, that, we're, kind of, physically, born, into, even, the nation-state, whereas, what, we're, now seeing, are, these, opt-in nations, opt-in, digital, nations, opt-in digital, communities that are starting, to fulfill, a, lot, of, the, needs, and, desires of, what, it, means, to, be, a, human, being, and right, like, if, you're, born, into, a and, if, you're, born, in to, a, very, difficult, situation, i, think, it provides, some, opportunity, out, where right, you, can, meet, people, from, anywhere around, the, world, learn, from, them

right, you're, not, just, like, you, know being, limited, to, the, people, and, ideas and, circumstances, of, where, you're, you know, physically, born, into so, that's, that's, one, one, thing, that, i'm starting, to, see, right, and, i, i, think, it's interesting, that, right, the, first scalable impact, that, we've, started, to, see is, right, like, you, know, people, going crazy, over, axi, and, places, like, venezuela and, the, philippines, right, where, there, is you, know, very, low, access, to right, like, uh yeah, uh, opportunity, ideas, um, things, like that well i, think, that's, a, really, optimistic version, of, the, future, obviously, there, is

the, uh tug, of, war, behind, like, well, you, know, you can't, actually, go, live, in, the, metaverse like, you, know, metaverse, will, not, put food, on the, table, only, real, real, resources, in the, real, world, definitely, will, but, it's also, hard, not, to, be, just, extremely optimistic, of it's, just, easier to, discover things, that, you, care, about, on, a, on, an emotional, level because, of, exactly, what, you, talked, about like, the, internet, allows, you, to, go, take a, beeline, for, the, things, that, you, care about, where, if, you, were, born, in, some, you know small, town, population, of, just, like, 1, 000 people, in, some, like, flyover, state, or some, you, know, third, world, country, where like, your, hobbies, that, you, have, can't really, be, fully, expressed, um, maybe, the

metaverse, allows, a, more, direct, route, to expressing, some, of, those, interests and, i, think, great, like, one, key, point that, i, think, just, popped, up, into, my, head is, it, allows, you, access, to, people, in, a direct access, almost, to, people, in, a, different socioeconomic, class, than, you, right, so you, could, be a right, filipino, axi, player, and, you, can join, a, guild, and, you, could, be, right, like you, know, really, uh, enlightened, web, three you, know, people, from, all, over, the, world that, have, been, in, this, space, for, six years, and, kind, of, learned, from, them, um and when, right, like, when, very, rich people, spend, within, these, right, digital economies, there's, more

it's, more, of, a it's, more, of, a, perfect, trickle-down system, right, for, example, right, so, if, you know, someone, if, someone, is, rich, and, you know, just, wants, a, bunch, of, axes, they're buying, axes, from, the, marketplace, that there, is, right, like, direct, value transfer, from, someone, in, a, developing world, spending, for, fun, and, to, increase their, collection, to, people, in, emerging markets, that, are, right, uh seeing, this, as, a, way, of, ascending, in in in, yeah, in, the, in, the, universe, or they're, kind, of, like, their, socioeconomic status, so, i, think, there's, more, right like, this, one, have, been, this, one, been one, of, the, i, think, like, the, super controversial, things, right, about, i, don't know, the, last, 40, to, 50, years, of, you, know a, global, macro, policy, right, is, like

right, like, how, efficient, is this, idea, of, like, right, trickle-down economics, and, i, think, we, haven't, really seen, right, truly, efficient, mechanisms, of having those, types, of, trickle-down, mechanics actually, work, right, where, you, know arguably, when, rich, people, spend, in, the physical, world, a, lot, of, that, spending goes, to, other, rich, people, whereas, i think, in, when, rich, people, spend, in, the digital, world, there, will, be, more, of, that value, captured, by uh, yeah, you, know, i, guess, people, from, um people, who, are, you, know, i, guess who, don't, have, that, much, capital jiho, what, about, the, future, makes, you optimistic i, think, that, the, future, is, going, to, be

scary, i, think, the, future, is, going, to, be actually, more, free, and, there's, actually going, to, be, more, responsibility, in, that i, think, like, we're, starting, to, see, the technologies, that, will, allow, us, to, be right, more, autonomous um but, there, there, will, also, be, right, like a, battle, and, and, i, think, for, me, like what, i, find like, i, always, felt, like, i, wan, i, was, a revolutionary, without, you, know, any, cause uh, to, be, involved, with, so, i, think, like right, like, if, you're, if, you're, that, type of, person, right, like, i, think, our, gender generation, has, reason, to, be, optimistic because, i, think, we, are, a, lucky generation, and, that, there, will, be significant, causes, to, take, part, in, um which, is, right, like, right, like, some

people, might, feel, jealous, of, people, who live, during, i, don't, know the, i, don't, know, like, very, peaceful, eras i, think, we're, not, going, to, have, a peaceful, arrow, i, think, it's, going, to, be full, of, conflict, and schisms, and, different, ideas, but, i, think those, are, the, most, interesting, times, to live, in, and, i, think, our, generation, and the, people, who, are, involved, in, this ascension, of, web3 where, we, have, a, chance, to, be uh, yeah, looked, back, on for, generations, to, come, so, we, actually it's, almost, like, a, generational opportunity, that, will, come, with, a, lot, of yeah, it's, gonna, it's, gonna, be, hard, um but, i, think, like, at, least, we, have, a cause, worth, fighting, for, which, i, think some, generations, um, didn't, didn't, have

the, chance, to, like, maybe, like, the, baby boomers, or, something, like, that, so i, think, um, being, adaptable, in, the, 2020s is, going, to, be, a, very, very, important property, or, characteristic, for, you, know making, it, through, this, crazy, decade because, i, also, think, it's, going, to, be one, of, volatility, and, chaos, um, any, other characteristics, come, to, mind, as, to, what would, be, useful, properties, or characteristics, personality, traits, for people, to, uh, lean, into, as, they, navigate in, the, next, decade yeah, so, i, think, like, yeah open-mindedness uh, curiosity, yeah, just, being, open, to making, friends, with, anyone, anywhere, in the, world, and, forming, like, deep, social and, kind, of, economic, relationships, with

with, people, over, the, internet, right, i think um yeah, i, think, like, and, then, just, like being, willing, to i, don't, know, waste, a, lot, of, time, online right, trying, to, click, the, right combination, of, buttons, to, go, down, these interesting, rabbit, holes, and, i, think this, is, you, know so, i, i, think, like, the yeah, the, willingness, to, kind, of, wander and, right, like, some, people, i, don't, know are, so, goal, oriented, uh but, but, i, think, sometimes, you, just, need to, kind, of, absorb, um, information, um, so, i think, having, that, willingness, um is, also, going, to, be, really, important jiho, thank, you, for, joining, me, on, this episode, of, layer, 0.

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