Avem nevoie de UPGRADE! Cum arată viitorul rețelelor sociale? - Mihai Alisie - cofondator Ethereum

Transcript

I don't know if you recognize it from the first but Mihai is the superstar of this year's event it was I told you it would start like this we're going to start off strong we are here at the Media Lounge at if bucharest 2024 and no I'm not exaggerating the superstar of this event is none other than Mihai Alisie who if you don't recognize him It's not your fault But you should if you are interested in anything in the crypto sphere hear Come on let's do an elevator Peach take You tell the people Mihai What do you do who knows where you come from hello everyone I'm glad to be invited to this Thanks for the invitation I'm glad we synced up this time My name is Mihai Alisie I started my journey in this space in 2011 when I confused Bitcoin magazine after that I

confused together with vitalic buterin and the other co-founders as a platform and after the launch of the ethereum Main Network We tried to explore the idea of ​​what we are going to do what are some of the biggest problems that we could solve now that we have this new technology and freedom of expression collective memory these things and the idea of community itself It was something that I was passionate about for a long time and with our efforts since 2016 May 3 on Press Freedom Day we continued to research develop

learn from mistakes and today we are at the point where for the first time after many many many years of lessons we have the first hackers And developers from the community within the hack tone organized by Ed Bucharest who develop things with Akasha Core Akasha Core being if we make a connection with what we talked about the first time those worlds in which we were talking communities that they can do whatever functionality they want including if they need a token and so on because we chose not to have our token slowly slowly they are becoming a reality maybe a little slower than we expected but it is happening and I am glad I like it Ai ai ai vănă Thank you people should see you more often around

here You where where do you spend your time let's say most of the time now in these times to say that in Switzerland the most and recently so to speak since the beginning of this year maybe the end of last year I started participating in events again so slowly and I was very happy to see the first ethereum event so in order to prepare an interesting event it's called curiosity summit I don't know how I'm going to get you there curiosity summit Ok sun I have to tell you about this thing because I think Mihai should be seen more often people should get to know you more and look I'll start with something because Andrei and put a picture with vitalic pin on

Twitter x I'll put a picture pin with you ok To be a little bit of balance ok To balance that is But why am I such a big fan of Mihai because since we talked at the first interview I have I understood the vision of everything that social media and other worlds mean and how well the whole discussion connects because just this week TRU social was listed on the stock exchange On the New yor stock exchange Ok Donald Trump's social network from something that seemed like just a billionaire's game, let's say a platform, a mouthpiece for the Republican Party, it became a social network that currently has a valuation as we speak of about 13 billion two, but

I was talking to Andrei and he said it's like a Mim Coin, people started trading this thing to raise it, but I don't necessarily want your opinion unless you want to give it to me about TRU social and What does classic social media mean at this moment, as classic as possible CI How do you see it at this moment for mass communication because we seem to be in a moment once again like the last time I was talking about ST where social media seems frozen, seems blocked, seems to be having a very bad moment, we have more and more places where For example, they are trying to ban social media for people younger than 14 For example, like in Florida and I expect this thing to reach us too I think it's very useful I hope no one gets angry And then

I'm curious how you see this because you only deal with this thing in a decentralized way with blockchain technology But you also have a very interesting philosophical vision of how things should happen I'm curious how you've refined it over the last few years I would say from the idealistic beginnings full of hope and we're done putting everything on the blockchain and everything is solved reality hits and there are certain problems starting from scalability to data privacy and certain things you may want at some point to be able to delete them from the Internet How would you say which Na if you put it on the blockchain it stays there Forever blockchain is Forever which can be a strength but also a weakness in

some blessing and curse How would you say besides this thing so as an overall vision it seems to me as an information-based society if we were to look a little at the level of civilization as a society how we organize ourselves it's clear that we live in times when the power to control mass communication channels is one of the greatest powers you can have and as a parallel I would just like to make a reference to Mark Zuckerberg Elon Musk and those who own the mainstream channels, let's say billions or hundreds of millions of people, and I have nothing against people. May God bless them all.

But as for what vision they have, I know that from Mark Zuckerberg's close entourage at one point he negotiated like a shark, so you know how it is if you sue me once, I'll sue you twice, so that his term as CEO of Facebook allows him to hold an official position and the world was like, Oh my, Zuckerberg wants to become the president of the United States, which if you look at it, it's not that implausible. Yes, if he were, he could do it, but the journalists were calmed down by the people in his close circle who said he doesn't have any bigger plans. He wants to be emperor. And in this case, he has bigger plans.

Yes, you know exactly. And yet you say the president of a superpower is a firing from above. How is that a kind of firing from above? Yes, I don't know exactly what they are. Until you get rid of one, to get rid of an idiot, you have to promote him. Yes, I don't know. In case let's say interesting analogy but so far nothing has happened finally I don't know exactly what his plans were or why so maybe if he wants to be able to do this thing but let's see let's say within this information-based society and the idea of ​​a pyramid of knowledge and well not pyramid skim Style but here we are talking about knowledge information and if you are familiar with the idea that at the base of the pyramid you would

have data after that over this layer you would have information on top you would have knowledge and at the top of the pyramid ideally to reach wisdom wisdom and the thing is that we with the systems that we have mainstream to say the dissemination of information in society these platforms that are owned by companies corporations that have no plan to share with society these things information itself data itself we find ourselves in a situation where this pyramid of knowledge is very poorly distributed and if it were at the level of society let's think about the first layer at the date very very little is accessible to

society information to say that there maybe if you say a Meme with a monkey that makes you laugh that it's information yes you can put it but information that matters less and including what you see on your feed is controlled by Yes and plus these algorithms that make your recommendations and somehow direct your thoughts without you being aware of it are again a mass manipulation in the wrong hands and above this level we would have the knowledge that the knowledge itself that if some good information escapes from the Sea of ​​noise that surrounds us if it were from the perspective of the platforms that host this discourse for them the knowledge That is applied and the data distillation of

Information and in knowledge in a more refined algorithm to exploit people's attention and make them more money from the ads that are served it goes back to Noise again exactly and the wisdom the wisdom is non-existent at the level of or reserved for the payers conversely Or conversely directed against society that has no direct benefit from this thing or Sometimes you know that you were smarter than me before you entered tiktok you know or vice versa exactly I saw a very interesting sketch on the Today show where he was talking about this thing that he said a very funny comedian said no Don't take these young people

off tiktok that they will become smarter less depressed and they will get ahead of us Yes you understand I mean it will become a competitive advantage to disconnect yourself from this algorithm that maximizes your dopamine with noise and there would also be the aspect For example now finally it's like we had the industry the industrial revolution when we introduced mom Be careful pac engines automation super production and it will give later brother pollution global climate change what Na so the side effects of the thing that initially Mom how good how great and I think in a similar way now we see the effects of this

information revolution that brought all this stuff and That it's not all that r and the initial idea that the declaration of Independence of cyberspace in which there were these idealistic beginnings in which a new beginning a new space freedom and empowerment people I saw a really cool slogan on the way here justice for Romania mother one more One you know this is a really cool podcast discussion as long as we catch you here I would like to take you again I'll take you here to really take you in the studio In the flesh I'm going to leave on Sunday morning I'll be there tomorrow as well as part of the event If it's possible tomorrow We can tomorrow tomorrow Let's find a solution because as long as I caught you here you're hard to catch you you

're no longer Swiss more Romanian at heart Romanian at heart now I don't judge you too harshly I passed by there and I saw that it's quite clean and civilized I wanted to ask you What are your plans with akha because I've seen it before The project left from eum World What's the difference between the two they unified the same story what should people who follow the project that we've told us about before in 2024 should expect Great Question thanks for asking Come on it's not low Ball it's easy Yes yes yes It's super connected of eum Wall and the Road that I started the idea with eum is that it's a very active community it's a community of communities and if you try to build something for a

general community most often you're going to fail because there are so many use cases very many how to say niches that you can't explore them all and you have to start somewhere and along the way all the knowledge that we accumulated when we tried to make eum World like the thing that I visualized a showcase and Look now we have this technology look What can you do with it a social platform for this community at the time I asked you Listen but wouldn't it make more sense to make this community and the platform for the technology with which you can build these worlds akasha in this case so it's like going Back to Back to the roots in a way Help me understand so from the product you go to the infrastructure That's

kind of what we discussed last time Yes so the product itself if it's a family of products let's say in which for developers those who are interested in the development of these social platforms with native crypto capabilities, so let's say it's about payment, making a payment in Stable Coin or eth or any RC 20 token or even we're talking about the universality of the Chain, that it doesn't necessarily have to be the ethereum blockchain, although ethereum is at the heart and this is the biggest ecosystem that I think we can welcome, so to speak, in this stack.

Technologically it's not limited to just that, so in the future if there is adoption from other communities, they are welcome, no, we don't discriminate in this matter, and what else would I like to add, that I was just inspired by what the people at Ed Bucharest did and based on the success we had with the hub in Barcelona, ​​maybe we discussed briefly last time, you were going to have a bunch of meetings, you did all kinds of retreats, you kept discussing this future, and from a distance, that's how it seemed to me. But why is it taking so long, it's like they're stalling because they don't want to let it go, and that was my curiosity. What are you actually working on? I mean, what would which would have to be the product that someone would see yes I got lost on the way in the

product family So if we were to take Technological we talk about technology after that we will have a layer we talk about the legal side and after that we talk about physical infrastructure Yes These are big things if we are to delve deeper into technology we have I mean this chest of tools for developers to create social networks these platforms worlds After that you can see as a product the world itself as a platform but that I mean it would be more for users not those who necessarily have to develop the worlds themselves And if you were to delve into these worlds I mean each world can have a specific specific I mean maybe it could be a community about scientific research

another community that has a profile more on the Art side artists or maybe it could be or social networks you think of them as social networks these solutions or how Yes So that's what I mean is that each world can have a community with a certain interest Yes And for example what as functionality a community that has the focus of scientific research needs a certain functionality that is very different maybe from the community of artists or very different from the community of developers who want to do something or a world full of activists who organize protests give an example so very different these cases this chest of tools akac cor allows the creation of solutions for all

these communities and even if at some point a certain community or a certain community needs something that is built in another world it can be used it does not have to reinvent the wheel Why All the tools will be Open source and interoperability by default as well as as an idea So once That's the software part the part that is cool and a lot of people will feel it as if I click post integrate functionality and so on after that we have the legal part which the legal part is not within the project eum let's say I was the one who was most in touch with the lawyers and we tried to figure out how we can lay the foundations of a legal infrastructure of an entity that

can guarantee the integrity of the Open source ethereum project in and the vision of non-profit Yes And so I came to say How should I say the template applied by many many projects that if you look there At how much Vai Market cap more than half of the Market cap to everything that means crypto is in Switzerland it's like a follow-up to this thing a systematization a replication of the success that we had there and saw that these guys did this thing nobody in prison can do it and we're good it's good but further from this thing within a foundation or an LLC or whatever it is you always start from the idea that you have a CEO you have an

executive manager a director let's say there someone a king on the hill you know as Subcarpathians would say and within these challenges that usually when you talk about web 3 and these decentralized communities That's how antithetical in a kind of Well brother I wasn't talking here that without kings in a way and if you take the definition of anarchy anarchy itself not that I am now I promote this thing but it doesn't mean chaos without a ruler but not without Rules So you have algorithms, you have things, certain social contracts between the members of society that can ensure the operability in an efficient way

towards the objective that is proposed without necessarily who is at the top of the pyramid and that is the hardest part I would say that it is among those that gave us a hard time for a long time because if you have this platform that is decentralized in the technological sense that you have the ethereum blockchain that you have contracts that you have applications that use decentralized infrastructure and so on at a certain point it is ok and who is behind who exactly operates ends up in the same problem again Well Gica SRL Well take Who is Gica Come here for a bit Give yourself that thing too well the head of the blockchain you can't call the European Union and slap you with a fine like that as we have seen recently that they have started to Here are the big technology companies for small money you

might have a problem exactly and that is one of the reasons for which I have If there were three triple spiral this trip this would be another one so we had technology and now We are talking about the legal side and on the legal side what I did with a group of very intelligent and resourceful lawyers from Switzerland we explored the whole spectrum of what entities you can open in Switzerland and I would make a little note here that in general any company needs an opening capital I think an SRL It is 200 RON yes something like that in the UK I think it is 200 pounds something like that yes in Switzerland the equivalent of an SRL which would be a gmbh is 20000

francs barriers of majors I mean when we went with ethereum and so we are still putting from hand to hand to do it somehow to open it is huge so that we don't spend our tokens now before well we didn't even have tokens we had Bitcoin from our salary from Bitcoin shops or things like that and after that a foundation in Switzerland they give like 500 francs Yes so there are how to say huge thresholds that Yes on the other hand as a jurisdiction it is very nice welcoming for crypto has I mean this tradition in privacy and so on it is as if we were to take from the perspective of

decentralization as a way of governance direct democracy and the way the cantons are organized is the most decentralized jurisdiction or one of do you think the future of social media is incorporation in Switzerland So here I will get to you as and that of entities so and On the other hand I discovered that the association as a way as specified in the trade register and so on the Swiss Trade Register how much do you think it has the capital requirement I don't know 20 10 francs to say francs A ok Yes It is very small zero of which here besides this thing You can use crypto and so on

Stable Coin or these that you don't necessarily have to a bank account which in the past It was and that's good we have 20000 francs where where is it in the bank account go to the bank Yes we also need to we open a bank account to What do you do Well blockchain you know like Werewolves When I hear about vampires and vice versa it still Even in Switzerland it depends but let's say it's not as easy as it should be and on this other side you have to say this legally recognized form that allows you to use crypto by default awesome promising start after that when I went to lawyers Ok well come on if that's it looks good we removed the barrier to entry

with tens of thousands of francs just to start startups and stuff that usually you don't start with tens of thousands in your pocket you go and you have an idea and after that the ideas make money and the first question when you want to open an association I don't know if it's the same in Romania Ok who is the president Who is the one who deals with the money tre in English Who is the secretary s secretary and most of the time Well it depends from association to association one person fulfills all three functions because there are no more caps or hats and In this case my question to their question but we have to have a president you know And I took them a little by surprise Well

wait no no no and they remembered that they are a federation confederation of cantons yes you know and said we don't have a person where we got well have something like a function so I don't know How long it lasts a year or two I don't know but it doesn't have a function of meaning big decision-making power or exactly and after many iterations and so basically I discovered That in the Swiss trade register and in the laws that are there it is nowhere specified that you have to have three people it is specified that you have to fulfill the respective responsibilities within the association and as long as you do your job Are you okay and I said good cut We don't have a president anymore Well yes but the

directors cut There is no more there either we only have a very reduced I would say as a function and decision-making power within the association and the power that It was focused on three people or three roles, it's divided into panels of people who are, I would say, in the initial form, seven panels that have topics or interests from ethics where you discuss what's ok in this community and what's not ok, code of conduct, so and so, membership, who's ok to be part of the association, who's not, the technological side, what applications do we need and how, and practically, the lawyers got into the thing after we got to this, in a way, we replicated the operating model of Switzerland within an association

legally recognized in Switzerland. Okay, this mechanism, let's say, is different from Dao, which decal looks like it's starting to look like, for example, that to use this type of organization, you don't need a token, you can do it without a token. If you need and want to, you can, but it's not necessary for governance. The format, to begin with, is democratic in the sense that each member has a vote and the supreme governing body of the association is the members. There's no director, there's no president. There's no one at the top of the

hill, and that's really cool, and besides that, it's also very cool. you can retain all the qualities that make the Yes interesting, namely to use crypto to secure resources, to use blockchain for transparent management of resources, to use blockchain for voting on where resources should be distributed, and so on, but at the same time to have legal protection in a globally recognized jurisdiction for each of the members of the Association and here comes one of the big differences with the Yes, which because they choose not to be incorporated in any jurisdiction in the world are open to legal action in

all jurisdictions in the world that need to be here here we plant the flag, you know, if you don't do that thing, you're with me, you're everywhere and nowhere, and let's say that would be maybe one of the reasons why we don't see mass adoption of this type and this vehicle of collaboration, we have the cooperative, the two-step model in the agricultural production cooperative, if you want, as we have, the heads that were misunderstood for a long time, brought in today, cooperatives can be made that can have all kinds of activities, including agriculture, there they can do anything, and I was talking about spree, for example with those from coop cop Network who made such a cooperative that has

economic activity but has a Da type organization in the end this model that you propose yes Which is let's say where yes a concrete world I would say that it is a hybrid type organization that borrows from the qualities of Da in the sense that it uses the blockchain infrastructure for things where you have value transfer and things to make decisions if it makes sense but at the same time with a footprint in a jurisdiction and here you know purists would say why does it need a presence in a jurisdiction because you have to put yourself short somewhere Why not enter each individual participant within a Dao to be legally responsible in

all jurisdictions in the world for any decision made jointly within a Dao in the end also to a governance based on democracy and an army to protect that country you need to guarantee that flag Oh army I don't know what to say it is the most armed country in the world Switzerland well Yes As you say density per capita Yes to bring 1 and a half million people to arms so I hope that won't be the case peace and quiet in the world but that being said I only talked about the legal side the part that seems even more interesting to me is that there are three things Yes I talked about the first two here is the idea that

in the online social space we sometimes lose touch with the physical space and maybe even in a way certain platforms try to disconnect you from the physical so that you spend as much as possible in the virtual to see as many ads as possible to make them as much money as possible and sometimes what is in the real world becomes less interesting than there because it's that dopamine to the red bell Ping Ping flashing and so on based and that's why I referred to the hub in Barcelona it's an experiment that in one way or another has its roots before ethereum and even the beginnings of ethereum and us in Switzerland when we first went to Switzerland it's a case maybe maybe more special because it allows you to be able to live in Romania at the same address where

you incorporate a company I do n't know I think you have to have either or give water here too Ok well it was interesting well again blessing and curse In this case It was something good because it allowed us to save money again kiri and stuff is expensive But I tested this idea of ​​holon h o l o n Yes holon And if you're looking it has roots in scifi ghosting the machine like that but the idea would be that it's this concept in which something can be Autonomous Independent but also part of a whole without losing its autonomy yes something interesting a principle that seemed to me really aligned with the things for which the web3 and this community that puts It

values centralization so in general and these hubs and the hub in Barcelona is an evolution from what I initially left with the hon 0 ethereum spaceship where I had to say the ethereum headquarters in Switzerland and it's a o o an interdisciplinary community So akasha the hub in Barcelona is I would say the home to several projects from C gardening stuff with nature High Tech gardening arduino raspberry Pie and so on temperature humidity ph you can do cool stuff after that in Art and science all sorts of installations and

stuff So Na Art stuff 3D printing stuff like that from objects to 3D printing food So food and these events that bring people together from different spheres of activity and although you have artists or scientists or engineers in these events each Discover their entry point into the world of blockchain or akasha or how they can make use of This type of innovation in their field I have to stop you for a bit We don't have much time left I like it very much ha I'm saying something cool day at the event at Ed Bucharest at the closing I announced

that we will have a hub in Bucharest too We will open here we bring after 10 years we return so I think it's really cool the idea that we will have such a place where people can come up with ideas there are a lot of talented people who know programming who have all kinds of ideas in this whole equation but I'm looking at I'm maybe I'm a little too pragmatic for your taste but I'm asking what the product is because I see some people who put a lot of effort into of their time but I'm really curious to the end What comes out of this thing what is the thing that I should look at and hopefully in 2024 2025 that I'll get in there I'll get my hands on it I'll interact in some way or another with the result of

your work you said you don't give them easily as Prod again I like to see get my hands on understand I understand maybe a physical space will make the whole thing more tangible an application that you have on your phone and you give for example if we were to take this space to have more things coworking Space to organize events to be like an accelerator for various projects and so on within these applications as we talked about Because I can adapt it to the needs you can imagine that these people who will gather within the hub which will probably have to prevail in the ethereum niche and build all kinds of functional you can have a scenario in which the hub

itself can be seen as a product the application used by the hub can be seen a product and in turn This hub that doesn't have to stay just in Bucharest. It could be a constellation of hubs around the world in turn because what we're building is a suite of tools that allow the building of multiple social networks in turn. To achieve a business model in which, similar to what you had with WordPress, where you have all kinds of companies that provide this service for communities, x and z will be able to offer services to companies, communities, and so on. You need a

decentralized network that makes us an interesting demo. April 24th, Curiosity Summit. A Curiosity Summit. Now, I have to say. We're at the stage where we're polishing it. Expert Developer. That's how it's done for the last time. I know. You're polishing it. Either you have a lot of free time or you're not in a hurry. Or you know something really cool that's coming. Because I see a convergence of several things. It was recently listed on the stock exchange. It saw it. Yes, I'm really curious how this thing is going to work. I feel this grip of social networks. We still have this huge leap forward in artificial intelligence. Are you still cooking something up? but you still don't want to say very clearly what the product will be you tell me a bunch of stories but they

are tools after all they are tools that can make other tools in turn Yes I 'm really curious to see what it will be when it is what I can get my hands on Let me give you an example at heaton here at heaton here Yes Like the exemplification of modularity and composition of the ability in which someone can build because at Lego we have a team that is building a new way of signaling information which they called Bubble breaker give an example Yes and the idea of ​​the Like button that was introduced by Facebook in 2006 was not necessarily designed for people wow that's cool so it was practical for them in the background to collect more information so they know what ads to give you and so on that

with eight likes they know who you are better than your friends exactly very absolutely and in a way No as a side effect not primary Yes you also get to discover things that your friends liked and so on but no to that wasn't the main goal na web 3 this world blockchain crypto and so on opens up new types of interactions that weren't possible before in the time of Facebook 2006 pre blockchain yes ok and starting from the assumption that there are a bunch of new interactions that are being thought of and created in this space We let This type of functionality open to the community to come up with all kinds of ideas like this Bubble breaker will do what it will bring me to expose me to information from other ecosystems Well you're very close

exactly but that's what Twitter does all day and well They try to make sure that it looks like you might like it they say well yes but it's also about it it's about the polarization that comes across Ok cor Well and how do you make sure that you don't accentuate the polarization but serve my education or personal development here comes the part where you don't have to trust an algorithm that's in a black box and so and you can look inside and yes and even you can modify certain things if you don't serve exactly what bu Breaker like a kind of Like day like a kind of posts it doesn't have to be anything complicated for users and instead of having that like you'll have like a up bubble Bubble I don't know how I don't know how to tell you

about the icon and so on but the idea in general this would be how it has redit up arrow exactly amplification or des mli and not only that you don't only have bubbles hearts thumbs up arrows up or down you have a lot of things to explore from voting in Spectrum from for example you have certain decisions that if you say Only yes or no you lose from we don't feel committees you have and from I'm very against to I'm very for and between maybe or I don't agree with what he said but I agree with the subject or I am or I like by default because I like the author but I didn't check I didn't wet the information there are a lot of nuances exactly and see This is the part where over the data that is published within the network And so you can

Finally, you build an infrastructure for the dissemination of quality information according to rules and algorithms that are sound and you can look at and adjust them for each person for improvement practically you that Silver Bullet the universal key of social networks should be this Bubble breaker is a specific example that shows that you can think even more and in this dimension in which even if it is information for more knowledge wisdom and application is the tape here the tape is spinning almost the tape Yes yes I understand it was a great pleasure to catch you I know you have to free yourself because you have other duties I want to thank you for making time we are very happy to see you

for the first time physically it is always more fun like this and we can't wait to see you next time Ok sounds good thanks for the invitation Thanks for the views only good to everyone where people can follow you very briefly I think I'm going to get Twitter out of mothballs there I haven't posted for a long time and so but with this event Mihai mihie and I hope soon on akasha ah