How Aerodrome Built a $200 Million Revenue Business

Transcript

Erdrome is a protocol that I've talked about a lot and um it frequently surfaces at like the top of holders revenue. Okay. But what's actually the business story behind the scenes launched straight into the Luna collapse. So if you can imagine a worse time to do a liquid airdrop, I [music] would be shocked. We didn't sell any tokens. We didn't raise any money. [music] And so uh our ability to survive depended entirely on the the protocol success. I was taking this unbelievable [music] risk, right, with very little clear prospect of of success. Now, [music] depending on the day, we are the number one uh DEX by revenue. We're all wondering uh the listeners at home, what you have planned [music] next.

>> Really, it's all been leading up to our latest Dex OS in metadex 03 will power a new exchange, which is called simply arrows. When Brian Armstrong says [music] that 5% or 10% of global GDP is coming on chain in the next 5 years that that is going to happen, how can you possibly [music] bearish? Welcome back to the fully vested podcast brought to you by Defi Lama. I'm your host Patrick. We've also got Defi Dave in the studio as your co-host. And today our guest is Alex Cutler, founder and CEO of Dromos Labs and core contributor behind Aerod Drrome and Veldrome. And really excited to have Alex on the show

today. Um, Velerrome are two protocols I've been following I think since 2022. Um, I remember in like the depths of well what I thought was the depths of the bare market in summer 2022. um uh sort of uh coming across this interesting decks on optimism uh which was villum and then of course aerodrome has since launched on bass and um one of the things we like to do on the show is we like to talk about the story behind the numbers defy lama covers a lot of data and then um our hope is kind of unpack okay but what's actually the business story behind the scenes what's what's happening that brought those numbers to light and and aerome is a protocol that I've talked about a lot and um it frequently surfaces at like

the top of holders revenue, which is a metric of how much revenue is accuring to token holders. Um so I'm really excited to kind of learn more about the process of how that's how that's come over the years. Uh but before I ramble anymore, Alex, do you want to introduce yourself and what you've been working on? >> Yeah. No, uh thanks so much for for having me and and yeah, uh it's been an incredible uh uh four-year journey. Um and and obviously, you know, I love being on a call with uh with folks who have been along it since the very beginning. Um uh you know, Veladrome launched in 2022. Actually, we just realized this weekend we missed the birthday. So, we did just pass the 4-year uh anniversary of Drrome's

launch. Um but it quickly I know. I can't believe we missed it. Yeah. Thank I remember I remember supplying liquidity to air to drrome trying to figure out what is going on here. >> It was it came out of that whole like V33 era and it was like all these different forks and stuff and not only you guys are the V33 that survived. You really have, >> you know, owned the you really taken upon your like your own life within itself. Like it's beyond like your own where you guys started and to where you guys are now. It's really incredible how much you guys have grown over the past four years.

Yeah, I think we like to say it's the kind of story that is like only possible in in DeFi, in crypto, in this onchain decentralized world, right? So, in technology, right, there's the the kind of meme now of uh a company started in a garage, right? Um I think we get to say that uh this journey started with uh in a discord channel, right? And uh the beauty of that, right? The big difference between that and the garage is that um outside of myself uh every other person that I met in the in the sort of founding crew was fully anonymous, right? Um uh you know uh NFT PFPs and pseudonyms. So we met in the

Discord and the Discord was part of a DAO um that was a subdow of Solidly, right? Um which was Andre Cron's sort of last big act in the the previous cycle. um a a new exchange model that brought together the best of cur convex unis swap into a single streamlined design and um as a part of that subdow I think we saw in the model right both tremendous opportunity like the the innovation and vision that had brought um as well as some of the issues in it that uh of course eventually led to um you know solidly uh uh not sustaining And so, you know, these five guys in

this discord said, "Well, what if we took this incredible foundation that Andre had built um what if we uh make a bunch of improvements, technical improvements, uh economic improvements, and then what if we take it to uh the place that we believe will represent kind of the fastest growth vert collapsed when we were having these conversations. But it was about that time right so we had to be ready um and we said well we are going to bet on the growth of ETH2s and so that means that even if cycle collapses and the way to think about cycle collapses right the size of the

pie is shrinking um we thought the path to growth was to identify the slice of the pie that uh could grow even as the pie was shrinking and to basically launch there and own as much of that pie as possible. So, you know, Belladrome launched straight into the Luna collapse. So, if you can imagine a worse time to do a liquid airdrop and an emissions based decks, um I would be shocked because uh you know, Dave, you were probably the only person, you know, providing liquidity in that moment versus like bridging your tokens out and and swearing off crypto for the rest of your life. Um, and it was tough for us

too, right? Because we didn't sell any tokens. We didn't raise any money. And so, uh, our ability to survive depended entirely on the the protocol success. Um, thankfully our thesis was validated, right? Um, uh, optimism of course continued to grow. Um, alt L1's, you know, kind of faded into the the ether, you know, the Phantom ecosystem. Avalanche and others and uh Veladrome of course expanded across the optimism super chain so it's it's interoperable now across about 11 chains we launched uh aerodrome which is of course dominating the single biggest eth 2 right in in base and uh you know now

depending on the day we are well we are not depending on the day we are the number one uh dex by revenue uh depending on the day we're we're usually number two or um on uh volume and now we're at the point where these two protocols are going to come together merge into arrow um extend on to mainet Ethereum and circles arc and uh we think we've got kind of the winning spot exchange model um uh for the for the sort of next wave of onchain activity of tokenized equities onchain FX all of that fun stuff.

>> Yeah, totally. Uh definitely we want to like dig into some of that stuff. I have a fun story. Well, it wasn't fun at the time, but fun story from >> Wait, let's hear it. >> from 2022. So, I um around May, I guess May, that was when Terara collapsed in 2022. Um I had a much smaller like social presence than now cuz I had like I think a 10K on YouTube, you know, a few thousand on Twitter. I had left my job to join a fund and I left my old job the day before Terara collapsed. So of course uh the job fell through. Um so I basically put like all the money I had which was onchain into providing liquidity for villum and that basically ended up being like my uh rent for the rest of the

year. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. So that was like that that was uh basically uh helped me get by while I was getting um getting my like uh media business up and running. >> And they say crypto didn't have any real world use cases. >> Yeah. don't recommend [laughter] don't recommend doing that to anyone watching but uh yeah that's my drone story. This is why we like to talk about uh aligned incentives because you know I had also recently quit my job um to go all in on crypto and and DeFi and um in launching this protocol right and you know not sitting on a a raise or any runway um we had one choice right which was to make it work and us making it

work is what made it work for you right uh because we're just users of our own protocol. The incentives are aligned whether you're a trader, you token locker, you're a liquidity provider. And so, you know, that was both you and me pulling on different sides of the old flywheel um to keep this thing uh alive um in those dark days and then of course rise like a phoenix, you know, when activity and interest uh flew back into the space. So, I appreciate both of you guys being there providing liquidity in those dark days. And something I I want to point out between both of your stories is how you both took asymmetric bets on yourself into something that you believe in. It wasn't like you had a

safety net. You had a vision and you're like, you know what, whatever happens happens. I'm going to give it my all. And like the fact that you guys went all out, whether it was, you know, quitting your job to get into crypto or quitting your job to build something like drum and aerodrome. Um I think this is a lesson that people can take because in order to be in crypto or in startups or anything in the frontier, you have to make that asymmetric bet. Like you have to realize like yeah, there can be downside, but the upside is just so much that it would be a crime for not for yourself not to take it.

>> Mhm. Damn right, man. like uh and it's the story of technology, right? Like um uh in every big techn technological revolution, right? It took people taking insane early bets when uh you know the broader zeitgeist would have said that they are crazy to do that or that will never work or uh you know this this thing will will never take off, never disrupt the incumbents. Uh but the folks who make those early bets, right? And that that certainly be a financial bet.

That can be a a labor and time uh bet. Um you know, it's a bet that your families take along with you because it's stressful moments, but uh you do it not just because you you love it, but because you think it's really important and that if you do it right, certainly uh we all share in the collective upside, right? And so yeah, it's been a hell of a journey now. >> Yeah, absolutely. And something you've taken an asmetric bet on is spot markets, which is what you talked about on your last podcast with the rollup and Andy and you see this incredible opportunity with spot markets and really dominating that area era. You point to your activity on base. Now you're ready to go to the big time on mainet. Um can you talk about this opportunity with

spot markets? Uh the progress you've made over the past few years with a drrome and what are some notable milestones? >> Yeah. Uh great question and I actually love this because um when I want to illustrate this opportunity what I what I've done is I go to to DeFiwama and the amazing like AI tool that you guys have built and I say hey can you rank each vertical of the onchain economy by the amount of value that it generates right and then also by the amount of value that it returns to token holders. And so, uh, it produces this great chart. We don't have the chart right here, but I

I'll I'll walk you through it. So, when you think about the onchain economy, obviously the chains themselves are are the most foundational layer. But the second most important layer of the onchain economy is the exchange layer, right? Because if you don't have the ability to exchange all these different uh mediums of value, different tokens, nothing works. You don't get lending, you know, you don't get these uh restaking protocols, you don't get all these new interesting financial tools and primitives, and you don't get certainly tokenized equities or or global stables on chain. So, the exchange layer is the second most critical vertical. But let's just talk about in terms of value. When you look at um last year uh spot exchanges

generated about $4.5 billion worth of fees. Um derivatives exchanges right which have been very very hot thanks to hype I think generated like 3 3.5 um uh chains themselves like 2.5ish um and then lending uh a bit less. And so when we talk about the biggest opportunity in the space is around these spot exchanges, it is because not only are they uh just as critical to the functioning of the onchain economy as the chains, but they represent the biggest prize in terms of potential to capture and redistribute value maximally. And the case I make for this

right of of why we've stayed focused on this entirely um because there's certainly been um we see this all the time with projects abundant opportunity to extend yourself in any number of different ways. Um the derivatives vertical was one um in which there was fierce competition right for most of these years right there was no clear um winner um undisputed winner right we had DYDX we had GMX we had hyperlquid all these types of things. So how did Hyperlid go from you know kind of a competitor in you know this derivatives vertical to the absolutely undisputed winner right and and this you know uh

complete repricing of the entire vertical well there's certainly a number of things but I think an outsized proportion of that is the fact that hyperlquid uh maximally captured and redistributes the value that that system creates back to its token holders. And so far more of the value in derivatives is captured and redistributed. So as like uh as an investor, you know, as a speculator these days, you don't need to if you're like bullish on the growth of onchain derivatives, you don't need to do much due diligence on, you know, which token to buy. you just buy the token that represents, you know, a close to 100%

uh value redistribution of that vertical, right? And that has led to um hype being the absolute winner there. We want to do that same thing for onchain spot markets. And we want to do that because those spot markets actually create even more value than those derivative markets. And we have a model that is very similar of course to hype. We redistribute 100% of the revenue of the protocol back to uh users of our token. Um we also have no no VCs um uh you know in the mix. There's no vesting token allocations from early investors.

And of course the one other big distinction here is that we also ourselves do not have liquid vesting tokens. So our incentives are entirely aligned with any other user of the token. anybody lost their token votes each week collects revenue you know we're on an equal playing field there so that is the market opportunity we see you know is a chance to bring the best exchange infrastructure to onchain spot markets just like hype did to redistribute 100% of the value of those onchain spot markets uh to users of our token and hopefully in doing so really remake um uh kind of the token landscape in in disrupting all of the uh existing

incumbents uh in spot markets. >> Yeah. Yeah. One thing I think is really interesting to see um transition with all this is historically not you guys but like most onchain businesses if you call call them that their business model was basically selling tokens um which creates this horrible horrible incentive structure cuz like I've seen at DeFi Lama right as we try to grow revenue and find product market fit. it's like extremely difficult and if you have the option of just selling tokens instead then like you have no basically no incentive to actually find a product that people are willing to pay for. Um and so then I feel like the business model for half a decade was basically most protocols selling tokens to stay afloat. uh now there's millions of

tokens because of the launchpads out there and so they can no longer do that and and suddenly that I don't even I hesitate to call it a business model but suddenly that model of of doing things has kind of um kind of collapsed and people are having to figure out how to actually earn revenue. >> Yeah. I mean, uh, our president Jack, I think, put it in a very eloquent way, which is like the history of our industry is graveyards full of protocols that made their founders fabulously wealthy before finding even a fraction of product market fit, right? And [snorts] it is a strange thing in this industry that uh you can um uh make an unbelievable amount of money or historically you've been able to before

even redistributing you know a single dollar you know to uh users of your token and that is through selling it selling it to investors at first right and then allocating yourself a bunch and um you know it's a tough thing because uh it's just incentives you know show me the incentive I'll show you the outcome. come. And if you're going to give a founding team of something uh 5% of the supply and you're going to hype it up and it's going to be worth $5 billion, well, of course they're going to look at that and say, "This is financial freedom for the rest of my life." And then, by the way, I don't know if I really need to work anymore. And so, you know, it's the meme of the cliff reached. You know, they're off living their lives. And I don't think that's typical of of other

industries. There's usually far more of a cost associated with with uh the failure. um and that there are you know far more utility or rights associated with the underlying assets. There's far more transparency that's enforced. Um but when we looked last year you know the state of the top 100 was 90% of them still do not redistribute value and that is the fundamental shift that I do think that we will be seeing uh and are are already seeing is that the investor class is um sick and tired of these games and of course the the the non-crypto native investor class they were never going to buy any of these things uh anyways right as the banks come on chain and and non-cryptonative

funds, they're going to look at fundamentals. They're going to say, "What do these tokens do? What do they gave me?" Um, you know, do they actually represent a piece of uh important onchain infrastructure that I believe will will grow, will sustain and things like that. And I think overall that will be very healthy for our our industry. I do think it reduces the the universe of of interesting assets significantly, but that is like it's trying to grow up as an industry, right? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That that actually leads to my next question quite well. Um the Clarity Act, it is very close to passing. I would say it's a 50/50 for it to pass. Depends if they figure certain things out, come to compromises. As someone in the business of tokens, I'm curious what are your thoughts on the Clarity Act giving the definitions of what is a security token, what is a digital commodity, um, and what what do you think the Clarity Act will mean for tokens, and what do you think the consequences are if the Clarity Act doesn't pass?

>> Yeah. Uh, great question. Um, so I frame this uh probably primarily through the lens of a uh doxed uh American builder who started building, you know, in the exact moment that the United States had this kind of knee-jerk reaction right in in the wake of of FTX and that no matter how hard uh you may try to do things right, there was no assurance that uh you would not be sued by your government uh or of course uh you know much worse outcomes of of being arrested or or something like that. And

you know I'll never forget the conversations that uh when we scraped together enough money to eventually start talking to lawyers and and we were trying so hard to do things the right way, right? and he's not selling tokens and not distracting down and we're just saying please just tell us what to do to be safe right um and they would say we can't tell you like you could do A lot of people do A you could do B fewer people are doing B right but I can't tell you that either of these things will protect you and so what that meant is that you know I had to talk to my now wife and you know my parents who are very confused about what the hell it was I was

And of course at that point I'm not making any money. I was making less money than I made when I was working um you know a regular job. I had to explain to them I was taking this unbelievable risk right uh with with very little clear prospect of of success. And so the main thing for me around clarity is that uh especially if they keep in the bill and I've been very vocal about this and we're big supporters of the DeFi education fund to have been very vocal on this uh most important part important portion to me is protecting developers.

Um because uh we have to uh if if this industry is going to succeed and if the United States is going to play a large role in it, we have to protect the ability of developers to go out and build with clarity and to know if they do things right, you know, this will not ruin their lives. You know, not everybody who we need to come in and build will be quite as insane as I was on. So I am very very excited about that portion and I'll be able to tell my you know parents who worried about me at various times that you know like hey you know there's laws on the books now and it won't kind of matter you know if there are pendulum swings on exactly you know the perspective on the industry in the

administration like um there are laws on the books uh but otherwise you know I think this is amazing for assets right um I think institutional side uh has uh been looking for this kind of clarity and certainty from you know the global economic hedgemen on on how it's going to treat these things and that will unlock um a ton of participation uh from some of the largest um capital sources uh uh in the world. It will unlock new asset types. It will bring new builders on board um which is all great. It's like supercharging the onchain economy. um in terms of your your question on like you know what

happens if it doesn't pass. Well, my chief legal officer I think has been vocal on this and very similar to Brian, right? Um that a bad bill would be worse than no bill. Um a no bill situation means of course that the uh SEC and CSTC are going to be able to continue to play um a role here and that there may be some ways in which uh you know that is going to be even better for the space in certain respects um than a bill. But uh I still lean towards I hope it I hope it passes um and uh that it will be a very good thing for the space. I'm not terribly worried at least for you know

the next 2 years if it if it does not pass. And overall I think we're getting out of this position that was really just an accident of I think FTX happening when it did that crypto a new emerging technology became a political team sport issue and it shouldn't be. That's not how you treat new emerging technology. This this is bipartisan and I think a lot of credit to like Brian Armstrong uh Fair Shake and others because I think they have brought they have draped people kicking and screaming on both the Democratic side and Republican side to seeing it in that way. So such that even if we don't get clarity now the consensus in a

bipartisan way around treating these things in a in a rational coherent way will continue to grow. >> Mhm. Yeah. One thing I've Yeah, I agree. Well said. One thing I've thought is once you have trillions of dollars of of assets of real assets tokenized on chain, then uh it'll have to be treated like the the new type of technology it is. It won't be realistic to say you're going to shut it down or or crack down on it. I mean, you had the thing today with um uh Andrew Cuomo is co-chairing some joint initiative to tokenize things. Basically, you you have you have enough enough um people with a vested interest in it now that I'm pretty hopeful for the future regardless of how it's and in the end it's just better

technology and uh history teaches us that that there is never a way to put the genie back in the bottle. If something is faster, more efficient, more more accessible, um eventually uh it will win out, right? Um, and I think that will be the case for this industry uh as well. And I think like you know the fact that you've got every bank uh right now hiring for crypton native roles um you know the fact that it's so top of mind for the likes of Jamie Diamond uh and and others just kind of shows that um uh we are being taken very seriously and uh you know our continued growing outsiz role in the global

economy will only continue. So, kind of a tangent from that, a lot of people right now, I'm sure you've seen who have been in the industry for, you know, since 2021 or earlier are debating whether they still want to be in in crypto because it's changing so much either mostly because it's becoming more institutionalized. What would you say to people like that who are considering say shifting to AI or some other emerging technology? >> Yeah, interesting. Um and uh this dissonance has been very interesting. I felt this for about a year going back to I think DOSs even last year. Um like the vibes on crypto Twitter are so radically different than

the vibes that you get when you go to these conferences and you start to meet institutional players, right? Um it seems like there is a lot of like hand ringing, there's a lot of pessimism, there's a lot of cynicism like in the folks who have been here for a long time and also probably this you know those tend to be the loudest voices in public forums like like on X, right? Um but I don't hear any of that doubt right from the institutions who are coming on chain u and who are incredibly interested right in things like tokenizing US equities right which we heard last week you know Coinbase is going to be making

a major push into uh these are real equities um that you can trade that have like dividends and voting rights and all of that stuff baked in um and like bringing global FX onchain or payments processing on chain and like it's this dissonance because like they are so insanely bullish and they move slow but like there is like no doubt in their mind that this stuff is going to be incredibly important and win and then you hear all the synthesis for people in crypto. Um here's my attribution. Um, I have never been more bullish, right? You know, building through like Luna and all those moments, that's when I thought it would might be over, right? That's when

I had the most like fear, uncertainty, and doubt about uh what we were doing. Um uh you know as we were talking about with all the legal and regulatory stuff now it's never been more clear to me that you know when Brian Armstrong says Coinbase's debt is at 5% or 10% of the global GDP is coming on chain in the next 5 years that that is going to happen and that is an order of magnitude increase over the size and scale of our industry today and I don't know how you could be disenchanted if you are here early participating in these systems and these systems give you access to participation in these things in a way that traditional citizens don't. How could you possibly be perish? And my uh

you know my theory on why people are uh is because you know look there was a period of time where you could make so much money on frankly some pretty shitty asymmetries uh slinging shilling you know worthless crap. And um people did really well doing that. And if the uh investable universe of assets is going down to 510 and you don't get to, you know, make a 100x on a good shitcoin, you know, bet anymore. You actually have to get in and do fundamental analysis and kind of like

make longerterm strategic bets or participates in these systems. That is a different kind of game. Now, there's going to be an unbelievable amount of opportunity for people who show up and participate in that. builders who who build things that uh service that. But it is not quite a I know a guy in a telegram group who's going to send this shitcoin to a,000x and I'm a millionaire, right? But I, you know, my personal opinion is good [ __ ] riddance, you know, like that hurt as many people as it helped. And I'm much more excited about um making it possible for anybody in the world to uh uh transact between global currencies

without their bank taking 5% of it. That is like disruptive, life-changing stuff for people, right? I'm much more excited about building shared systems that create shared value and giving everybody access um to a greater share of this new economy than that than they can get through traditional systems. That is why I'm here. That changes everything, right? Some like I was just talking about this the other day. So, we didn't sell any tokens, right? And like, you know, I don't know how many projects are out there. I know it's we didn't do it.

He didn't do it. I can't list many others that that didn't do it. So, what did that mean? Well, Dave Patrick, you were uh farming fellow tokens, you know, back in 2022. So, you had access to get tokens the same way everybody else had. Nobody could permission your way out of that. You got the same type of if you locked any of those tokens, you vote each week. you are just like us as team members voting each week. Um, but what did that mean? That mean when that meant when Coinbase came to us and they said, "Hey, you guys just doubled the TVL of of base. We want more exposure to this thing." We had to say, "Well, that is awesome. We would love you guys to be be

more aligned with this." You your way of getting there is the same way that Patrick and Dave got there, which is to participate. you have to go buy tokens or or provide liquidity and earn them and then participate each week. And we have that conversation with Coinbase and with Wimmute and you know with with every single major funded institution and that sort of fairness is unprecedented in the traditional world where there would have been any number of you know private rounds and accredited investor certifications and things like that. But it is also close to unprecedented in this industry whereby insiders get this uh unbelievable edge on early access to

things at these discounts and then of course they rely on folks coming in at the last minute providing exit liquidity for them as those like bets come up and like that sort of like paradigm shift of building better systems and these shared systems is like so exciting to me like that's why I'm there. >> Beautifully said. This actually also leads to my next question quite well because we're all wondering uh the listeners at home us what you have planned next. I mean you were on a few podcasts, you've been giving presentations about the new era going to mainet but can you give the exact details of what's going on? Uh what are the new tokconomics are going to be? And

then you mentioned something along the lines of predictive allocation. Uh can you go into that as well? Yeah. So, yeah, it's a an exciting time. Um, like you said, we're we're four years into this journey and the journey started with sort of Veladrome taking over the optimism super chain, you know, this scrappy little startup of anons, you know, flipping some of the largest, most wellunded incumbents in the space. And then, of course, Aeradrome as well. But really, it's all been leading up to um our latest DEX OS in metadex03 will power a new exchange, which is called civically arrow. So, we're dropping the the drrome, just Arrow, and uh Arrow and will combine into a single

protocol um into a single token um and it will extend onto mainet, Ethereum, and ARC. And it's really designed to be the single exchange layer uh of uh all of EVM. And so we're in audit right now, right? And anybody who's a builder knows um you know, as soon as you put the code in audit, it's a little bit out of your hands in terms of uh timeline, but uh we're very very excited because I think we just closed our first round on Friday and we're kicking off our next round vertly. So we're we're making progress towards the goal. Um yeah uh one aspect of it is of course that we're

massively growing our PAM and you know we're taking a winning model and extending it uh into the largest X market uh today in in mainet Ethereum but we also have these amazing new uh uh pieces of of technology um and it's both economic and tech stuff that powers the synthesis of the two. So predictive allocation is a very exciting one because we believe this is an entirely new onchain uh primitive uh one by which um capital allocators so arrow stakers uh have the ability to basically allocate capital to places or make a bet like they would in a prediction market to basically preund a market and then

earn an asymmetric reward if that market produces value. So a way to think about this is like um if you believe right uh as a capital allocator in our system that there's going to be an extraordinary amount of volume in TVL um uh that needs to exist on a you know longtail token or maybe you just think like the Fed's talking this week so either Bitcoin is going to go crazy. You know in our current system this everybody in the system ends up sort of earning the same amount. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. So this brings that asymmetric upside of prediction markets to market creation and then you earn that asymmetric upside if you are right. And why this is so

exciting is it means that liquidity now moves in an anticipatory way ahead of the need for it. So it makes us even more competitive against sort of the legacy self-organizing models. Um and it it's something that we think could be applied to any sort of event whereby there is like a a decision or something that needs to be funded uh under uncertainty right so we are starting and applying this right to uh preunding you know like uh uh AMM pools but you could see this applying in any number of different ways so we think that's super exciting we think the new uh air engine the adaptive emissions rate with that is

super exciting too because we can optimize the exact amount of value out rather than uh optimizing against a quantity of tokens. So uh like in aggregate uh as I said at the beginning we already have you know the highest revenue decks in the world. We have uh a deck that outco competes uh all of these incumbents anywhere we compete head-to-head and we are uh adding new revenue streams so more value into the system and then through mechanisms like the adaptive emissions rate through predictive allocation we're making it much more efficient which means less value out so we are supercharging what is already we think the dominant uh spot exchange model uh on the market today

>> supercharging the flywheel we love flywheels I know I Yeah. Yeah. >> That's that's awesome. Um uh well put I think that's a great place to uh to wrap it up. Uh where can people find you or learn more about Arrow? >> Yeah. Um so you can find me uh on X. I'm WGME Alexander. Um and you can find uh Aerodrome at Aerodrome Fi. Veladrome atromei. and um check out our website aerody.xyz that's where we have uh all the details of course around things like predictive allocation v3 and things like that and

do stay tuned because we will have some some updates really soon uh leading up to the launch. Awesome. Thanks so much for joining us uh to people watching uh be sure to give Alex a drrome and drrome a follow and please give us a follow if you like this episode and subscribe on YouTube. We're just getting the podcast started and it really helps us out. Till next time, this is the fully vested podcast. Thanks so much, Alex. >> Thank you.