6 Next generation social community envisioned by DAO 【DAO TOKYO 2024】

Transcript

all right so I'm moderator sh OJ and uh here's Paul please introduce yourself I'm Paul co-founder and CEO at block live we're an entertainment infrastructure company and perhaps uh the Creator the ticket that you're you're holding today underlying technology there hey hi everyone my name is Hugo I'm Tech at Luxo and we work on um like identities account abstraction and standardization so yeah that's my quick uh my name is donor I'm a security researcher at prosc so I do research on social engineering fishing targeting crypto um I also so part of the infos team on bangas Dow and currently at the court team on bankas

Japan all right so this panel session is next Generation social community and vision by da and in Japan there is some some unique Dow is now popular which is like local community Dow like yamakoshi you know and I also wrot some book in Japanese three years ago which is for the local community DS I'm making that with the Nik corporation which is Sky Tokyo sky 3 designing Corporation so I'm making that local community D then those three people are practitioner of doubts and uh they all know the live ring Dow itself so let's start from down low that please

share your experience and uh your keyword is bibes right so yeah that's right um so kind of backtrack so I'm not too sure if people are familiar with the issue situation we had with bangl hour before where we put in a proposal with arbitrum da and crypto Twitter didn't like that one um so we got a lot of attention from the crypto population that was pretty negative towards banglow but then within banglow we still have Good Vibes because we've been doing this for two years uh doing different projects to promote like a bank list like World um so it was just kind of interesting to see that uh externally you have to worry about Optics SL

attention but then if you have a doubt that has good chemistry energy and Vibes with each other you could weather a lot of undo attention um so with through the pr issue we're restarting the doubt but a lot of core team members still have Good Vibes with each other so we didn't just like this band so all right yeah VI is very important for Dow and for roer Community though as well the participant must ably join to the Dow activity and DOW design itself is very important the slight design change and like now ai is very popular and AI collaboration will be very important uh factor for the Dow Vibes

and liing vibes from broke RVE you're like a dow based ticketing service you're making and uh this now toky as well utilizing that broke R right so pre share me that the how uh event participant bibes will be reflected to the event Dow governance and such kind of more detail PR game meet it's an interesting way to put it because uh I think especially with something like a live event The Vibes are one of the most crucial things so you're going there to feel something and part of the tech technology question is how does it amplify that sense of Vibes or what your feeling a piece of it we

play with obviously is ownership so you own your your ticket uh we also know that not only do you own your ticket you showed up at the event so you're a real participant a real human being um that's contributing to The Vibes and then some of the questions go how does ownership or these models amongst you as participants change the way you feel about the event so this is one thing we put on chain the the tickets of Dow Tokyo in 2024 but how do the participants get to use those to amplify their experience and maybe future experiences we're a community of Interest I guess in large part already it's very interesting that the Dow itself changed the experience of event

and uh yeah that's very legit usage like there's many noises in this uh cryptosphere but that usage is quite legit I believe and by implementing for implementing that kind of Dow maybe we need diid because civil registan is quite important for the ticket purchasing person so PR tell me more I think it's pretty obvious that the people in this room aren't an army of bots which is amazing right um if you bring your physical body to an event and you check in um and you have a decentralized identity you can write a credential to it saying that this person is real they they showed up and that can be used not just within a specific D but

across the cryptosphere um so yeah I think uh real communities are actually the basis of whatever online networks we're creating I think the bots in large part are noise but I'd be curious actually your your take on that as a bankl Stow participant uh can you rephrase the question again how important do you think the real world connection is and the fact that the participants in the Dow are humans is to your functioning as a bankless dow yeah was like I guess going back to the Vibes like um I've always noticed like going to inperson events um with bangas Dow it's always been like a core team of people from the Dow that went to these inperson events over the

last two years um they also tend to be like the figure heads of the community and they kind of spread like the mission downwards um so in that respect it's like inperson events are an easy way to not only continue with the virus but also like this anti resistance and anti- boding um so I think that's what through this restructure we're trying to encourage more is doing more uh meetings in person then we rely Less on um like relying on simple tools to kind of combat that stuff so I will I will jump in the in the topic of identities I think it's extremely important for Dows and in the

future like obviously we don't want buts we don't want Cil and uh uh the identity can be also individuals but also companies and uh I think this is a important part of like the future of Doubt obviously we want also this identity to be easy to have and to um to like to to make it live and today uh this is something I think in the whole space like how do we standardize thing and how do we you know get one way of doing thing because of today there's like a lot of ways of making an account or proving it and uh I do believe that in the future if we want to have I don't know have a

DA with the fan of a spot club or something maybe not so technical people uh they will need a way to to have an account in an easy way and we cannot ask them to do something too hard kyc or whatever and uh that's obviously all the the challenges of doing things decentralized is like who do we trust right so yeah a very important topic yeah the with Dow is quite Hot Topic like there is many application that cooperation game like every each down member can cooperate with each other if there's D and the trust repetition braah braah but uh if there is many D standards Dow must be deal with that Dow must have same interface

so that standardization is quite important in the future and we have to study it now because after we make many things standardization is quite hard so we better stud it now and for example this like the how data should be hold in Dow is kind of not a big matter the big matter is the GAA functions interface right how we communicate with external world and is there any clue that did related Dow interface um I so there is a very nice project called Dow star uh maybe you know uh it's backed by a lot of uh of big projects and uh they did an amazing

job at standardizing thing you know making all those nice Json file that you can connect to different system I'm not sure how the identity is is managed here but uh yeah obviously as with everything standardization on blockchain is uh let the best win at some point and uh yeah there are a lot of Standards but there's still this kind of thing of fight sometimes like oh my standard is better your standard is better and then we end up in you know this situation and I think at the end the users just had like five accounts or 10 accounts I don't know one for each standard I think it's just natural and over the time the the best win or the best IDs will stay U so yeah that was star check it's amazing uh so yeah that's something I wanted to

share I'll share my experience that I made a standard which is not down standard that is just upgradability standard of solidity but after making standard I noticed that GPT learned it so GPT can speak and GPT already know my standards that is very kind of yeah quite good experience it was and standard making standard is not the combersome task it's just like publishing because I am am spontanously learning so yeah maybe we better to more open to make standard and we can collaborate I believe so yeah is there any other D standard possibility do you think uh hug go um there's of obviously those famous

tools that maybe you all know snapshot and so on so I think it it brings a let's say a common view across you know I know that Dow should this interface and then I know this D through this other interface uh so I think that helps I don't know if that's a standard but that helps uh so yeah obviously there's also Discord which is a nice you know there's always this joke that a DA is just a Discord server or telegram with a multic I guess as more more tools will will uh come then it will be easier but yeah I don't know if at Bank list out if there's any tools that you use uh to yeah standardize thing maybe well that's a good question because I think at a time when bangas Dow was in peak in

terms of number of users we had an issue with standardizing tools within the Dow these were too using too many um like we have Discord telegram a whole bunch of uh other chat tools because we would partner up with other protocols to use those tools um so I think we tried like most to TOS out there within bankl sty but then going back to standardizations there's standards across like the ecosystem people trying to figure it out but it's also trying to figure out a standard within a dow um because you especially for bigger Dows you have different projects and different guilds departments they kind of want to have their own standard of doing things but then they try to collaborate with another team that standards going to

clash with other standards so um yeah so standards within a dow also need to be set and yeah before going to Paul question I have a feeling that dowo user is not diverse like bankless da is more Elite user there is I believe because like defy Elites there is maybe and uh for Brock Drive pure event participant there will be right so the user experience will be far different and the difficult point is we have to abstract all the aspect because both are Dows and we can make some standard and for gas how do you deal with gas problem and I want to

ask hugle as well that gasless Dow more like treasury compensated gasless Dow will be very important thing for the measure mass mass adaption of the Dow and how can we standard make standard that yeah uh it's a good point so let's say you ask someone who is not Crypton native so let's say you have I don't know the local uh I don't know farming Association and you know they want to have a dow and like figure out how they will spend the money of whatever community and obviously if you ask those people to um load some token to pay transaction fees it's it's it's hard right uh why would they do this and even though the the fees went extremely low lately uh if you still have to pay one

cents you still have to have one cent you know and at this stage whether you load five or or 10 or one cent you still have to do this whole process uh and I think we lose a lot of people down the road here uh obviously Dows and this whole thing it's it's much more than uh like I really do see that communities from government cities uh I don't know sport Association music clubs all of that they will just you know go uh by themselves and just discuss hey we want to spend the money like this or like that uh and maybe I don't know in 50 years people will look back at today like oh my God they used to do it through I don't know the parliament or something I don't know but U yeah obviously at this stage gas

abstraction is important and if we can at least say to people hey look go here create an account and we will deal the transaction fees for you you don't even know need to know what it is uh your transaction will go through the chain uh that's already a good step and there are lot of things happening uh at luu we're working on that there's like there's a lot of ways of doing it uh and again it's a bit fragmented uh but yeah would be a great win that people don't have to think about it uh gas FES is paid even if it's slow and uh yeah though yeah that's my point on this all right I could touch on it actually like um even if you're a dow doesn't necessarily mean all the

participants are Crypton native or you know able to navigate every single evm chain or SPM option when it's presented to them so when we started you know putting live events on chain we were doing it for Dows and we assumed that we didn't need to have any account abstraction and people were stopped at the point of getting a ticket so if you look at our like product today we provide a custodial wallet that we create on the backend for people who are doing a guest checkout nobody pays gas on on free or paid tickets there's the option to do an onchain men obviously and we run pay masters I think on nine nine different chains or 10 different

chains to make that possible because it's a hard stop at the front door yeah and like even if you've been in crypto for a while and are used to doing onchain transactions and paying for the gas like after a while it's like I just want a ticket I don't want to worry about this stuff because I worry that about that for like def yields and a bunch of other stuff I just want a ticket so yeah and it comes to a point where like if we should reduce refreshen for everyone even if like they're crypto native so to speak so yeah you don't want to bridge for like 20 30 minutes to uh mint directly on our I try not to anymore yeah all right so now prepared topic has been exhaust exhausted and uh we to dig

more about uh what we are doing and uh we can ask more question from audience as well I believe so if there is some audience who want to ask question please Lise your hand and ask that and if there's some some very good topic go ahead yeah I think it would be nice if anyone has a question to uh to know like maybe uh like does anyone here has been involved with like you know running a dow with non-technical people I'm not saying you know a crypto Community but something that might be you know like yeah just your brother or your sister your mom whatever I think it would be interesting to know uh what was your experience with this so yeah maybe it's

a lot to ask I don't know I'm thinking also uh well if anyone has a question feel free to to comment I was I was thinking also that some maybe the adoption might come from existing project uh so obviously there's this you probably all know it patreon uh it creates communities right and I think when such big project maybe one day they go and if they if they switch to web free they will um they they will unboard a lot of users and I think this is also a way to uh you turn those communities into into something where they can decide and it's not centralized anymore and I don't know what's the what's the what those companies think about Dows

and everything maybe it would be interesting to reach out and say hey guys like maybe they're already looking into it uh it would be interesting to see I don't know if there are like other project that could uh you know benefit from their existing Web Two community and and come into the Dow world uh can I ask audience question that okay the person who belonging to at least one Dow please raise your hand all right all right oh no D people also there is okay [Music] so all right yeah I have a topic this is not pref topic anyway I made a local community there and I noticed that I'm living in Saga prefecture which is quiet

lural area in Japan southern area of Japan there's many already like uh 60 years old oh still young you know so 75 years old and there's so many such ories there is and uh I noticed that uh everyone is busy everyone is busy and not joining to the public uh conference in the legion like house owner association or something others same thing goes to doubt that it's direct democracy basically and every each proposal coming in every day and we have to vote for it we have to chase the all the discussion such kind of very busy situation there is you know

and uh for my Dow Dow framework which is which is open source uh the name is teist and that has sortition system sortition it's like random choice of member so it's like if there is 100 people there is pick 15 people from the entire member and put them to the proposal and they can vote they only can vote and there will be many parallel proposals this aimed to achieve more kind of not busy D experience I'm not sure it works or not but is there any do you know do you feel that this busy feeling is program or not

and is there any other solution for that this is maybe related to the bbes I mean decision-making fatigue is a huge thing so even people who are highly engaged at the beginning are likely to fall off the cliff eventually I can speak a little bit to the entertainment case or like the topic of Interest case which is that there's going to be a power law of people who are super interested in a subject or to take the sports example super fans of a team that might be very interested in decision making about a couple of things that matter to them uh same way you'd make a lineup you know or who the the opening act should be for your favorite comedians something like that a small

group of people would remain interested in making decisions about but it's also tied to the incentives around the community why are those people there uh why are they coming to make the decisions is it financially motivated and I imagine it's quite different in the context of of different sort of dows yeah yeah probably everyone has their own expertise I think the fact that having delegates in some protocol they do this you know you you you vote for a delegate and then the delegate is you know like representing you I think it's a great way but of course there's I think it's a bit overwhelming uh you you know you you you did one action on that protocol and now you can vote on this and that and obviously it's not a full-time job either so yeah I I agree that it might be overwhelming even

myself like I receive emails of like hey vote on this and that and it's like yeah you know takes time and uh yeah so yeah delegate I think it's a great way to and maybe groups of delegates you know maybe some people are more you know they they are more knowledable about the tech and some more about like the economics and some about this and then they're like different groups uh yeah yeah I think with like Ang out too is like we didn't use a delegation system but it's just the people that kept turning up like the same people that would go to these imperson events that are like the outliers that kept going do you be the ones that to also be doing the governance proposals and votes like writing the proposals and voting on them but they also were the ones that were working for multiple Dows like they

were just really hardcore in 200000 General where we saw like a lot of people that were not into that kind of stuff were kind of experimenting um so it kind of depends on kind of I guess like the makeup well back to Vibes like The Vibes of the Dow and to see like how are they going to contribute like they might not contribute that The Vibes are not with them or doesn't speak to certain Dow members so yeah could I ask a question so if the Dow becomes a more popular model and spreads to other parts of society how do you see people coming into the thought of choosing a delegate for every organization they become a part of or do you think that's some of the social understanding that

needs to change that's a good one I mean the same way as how do we vote for our politics right I mean do you vote for someone because I I think it's a good good debate uh I don't know um I guess you know like maybe someone runs a campaign and it's like I I don't know it's good it's a good question and I think that what will matter in this is like uh transparency again because obviously I guess also today when people choose for the delegates do they really choose or do they go with the one who's like yeah he she is in the top 10 of delegates so probably they know something uh so at the end it's good to have delegates but if they choose the wrong way it doesn't doesn't work right so yeah good question and I'm not sure about the answer but uh

again I think it goes in like tooling transparency and making things uh uh easy uh easy and simple otherwise people won't just do that last they won't do the effort for sure yeah I feel like attention is kind of security resource and you a security researcher I know and uh there is many defi protocol which utilize attention as some uh kind of more attention price higher and more attention volatility lower there is many designs there will be and that as well the governance needs attention actually and delegate uh just they pay attention and other governance participant doesn't pay attention so the delegate want to earn from that

basically like corruption opportunities there will be otherwise like delate is busy and other not derating participant can use their attention to other air drop and they AR sear kind of a not good bance there will be so I feel like attention is very precious security resource even for D governance as well so yeah delates is also kind of very important uh security mechanism that we need to investigate about how attention and profit balance is working so I think still you your security researcher I know so the discussion is still like weak I feel how do you think about that well

like it's with delegates too like I was thinking like there's so the issue to issue with delegations it also goes to different levels of how you're presenting delegates like UI level too it's like are you randomizing your list of delegates when people are looking to vote for a delegate or um is always to being the top like list of people um so security is like one thing but it's also things about like perception uiux um yeah yeah yeah for like defy da or some like as you said that the elite user da can choose dgate but uh if there is kind

of very know me many know me there is like my local community d as well there will be many n me like even they don't use Google Map like just remembering their Geographic structure and they just don't use Google Map such kind of users there is and let's say there is no chance to choose dgate and uh still we have to design a dow which is not busy and secure so there there will be more and more design space for Dow architecture and uh more diverse DS there will be more customized and Fork DS there will be and we have to make standard among that that

is our challeng and our like bright future because there's many opportunity so yeah three minutes left and uh if if there is anything you guys want to say please go ahead I I think it's nice when you ask the questions like uh for the ones who like are not in the da would be curious to know why you know like what what was it too hard of a challenge to go in or like I don't know how we can ask the question in a way you just raise your hand but uh maybe you could start with why should they join a d yeah that's a good point yeah uh and maybe the offering is not good I think for me the let's say I you're very involved with a I don't know a club you know I if you go

to a club you like it you like the artist or the label and you want to be involved with that I would love to join such a DA and like make uh um suggestion about hey let's book this artist or let's spend the money that way this does not exist like because why I mean obviously maybe they don't know uh so yeah maybe the offering but maybe uh uh we can ask a question like this so did anyone of you here found like uh a doubt that's worth like joining let's say or like no I don't know how to how to explain it with you know but uh um um uh okay who who thinks it there there's no doubt here that is worth

joining or yeah raise your hand if you if you don't know any doubt that you could join let's say okay so everyone everyone would be happy to join a da let's say I don't know if I'm asking it the right way maybe it's a bit I was thinking too is like Dows like depending on when you enter crypto Dows are either like this very nebulous or really complicated thing was like oh it's not autonomous so it can't be a doubt versus like oh it's just a chat room with a multi so if everyone has a different perception of doubts so it's like what kind of doubt do I kind of want to join yeah maybe the value is not clear I think maybe to finish I think this go with a lot of Education of like hey what it is how it works and this

appli for the whole crypto space uh hey yeah so I think there's a lot of work to be done on different ways tooling uh education uh making the tech easier uh but yeah there are a lot of companies working on all of those different steps and uh I think that uh yeah just give it time and it will make things easier but I do believe there's a lot of value in having Community to decide what they want uh directly and uh yeah I really do think it will change socities but that's my personal opinion I don't know if we'll have one minute or 9 second maybe we can finish with a little closing word from each of us

and all right so yeah we we've been talking about Dao and that's next Generation shape and the standardization such kind of topic we've been talking about and uh yeah you know AI is now popular and the solidity development is much more easier so many custom D will be there that POS is us that there is so many needs to make Dow standard standard and uh as we talk there is so many type of Doubt already there is like for doubt for expert and a doubt for normal daily life so yeah let's focus on the standardization of Dow and

uh let's consolidate uh how th integrate with each other and how we can get accustoms how normal people get accustom with the Dow experience such kind of on boarding is very important now so yeah let's do it I think uh to me it seems exceedingly obvious that ownership in the digital space is a huge thing so being able to own part of a community of interests something that you love will only amplify the experience I think by by accident just by owning a ticket to Dow Tokyo you are in part an owner of this event it depends you know how they

utilize that and how it plays into what's happening here today what might happen in the future but it seems clear to me that as a Rangers Fan I want to partly own the Rangers and I don't know how to do that I'd like to do that in digital space and have it represented and I think to the point about abstraction if we can make that Journey obvious and fun and exciting and the participation you know delightful then it'll really change the acceleration the adoption of this kind of thing even if it's not necessarily called the Rangers Dow um but yeah that'd be my my piece and I guess what I learned from bankl sty is that even if crypto Twitter doesn't like what you're doing if you have Good Vibes and you could last

through like bad Optics and stuff like that then you probably have a good good team to continue with different projects it's kind of like if you're doing a startup might have failed a startup but then if you finally like a good founder then you continue on with different projects so yeah all right so now we finish our top panel and thank you for listening thanks thanks so much thank you