39° AVC Subcommittee Meeting | Protocol Scope Bounded Mutable Alignment Artifact | Maker

Transcript

[Music] he [Music] [Music]

[Music] [Music] a [Music] [Music]

h [Music] [Music] Julia blue Maran Pipkin what a week I think I always start with this expression with this hello hi there your name um but that's

always happening uh Welcome to our 39th ABC sub comedy meeting focus on protocol scope this is the third week letter um probably you already know the topics for today as always this has been organized by the two members s l oex root okay these are the topics we're going to cover today that includes as well of course um the the future of the ABCs the roles of the ABCs I um which one you can start now and sharing your your opinion on this

decision do you believe this was a success uh if you have anything also maybe um to mention about you agree or disagree with um what has been saying or maybe not that but it's more like what do you think would be have uh improved we're going to focus on that a specific point uh in a little bit just wanted to mention uh [Music] um just give me one

second okay so um we do have a guest today was last minute just let me confirm if it's here yeah there you go thank you n Builder so we do have a guest uh thank you for coming because we were actually one of the topics was regarding the pabs uh latest update which of course involves a lot of this scope Al will uh with what I was mentioning about the the lunch season that a lot had to

do as well and I encourage and recommend everyone to listen to our last week's recording because it explains a little bit more I mean t from uh from spark or well that used to work in fun Labs gives their Insight on sow on that economics on the the the governance structure and know um that we know that the structure will be or the launch is going to be we do not have an specific that yet yes we don't we don't have but it's going to be for like the reing and then it's going to be the new lunch tokens right that means the newd new GT with their real names then it's going to be like the the D stake engine that if I'm not mistaken

P of UPS is going to take into account um and but no it's not from pabs it's actually from from from deis and so I'm going to start by presenting our guests I don't know if I'm gonna say your name well U the the tagger amusing G hello can you hear me well hello hello can you guys hear me yes perfectly first of all thank you thank you for for coming um and let's start right way so can you please tell us a little bit about you and uh the experience that you

have yeah for sure so I've been working with the maker protocol as an engineer for the past uh almost two years and a half now uh and I'm one of the co-founders of DS which is one of the ecosystem actors that uh one of the first system actors to uh work with the protocol under this new model after the core unit model has been uh disbanded so uh we work primally with spells and development of bspoke uh smart contract modules for the Dow and also provide like some technical cons

consultancy for other teams thank you um just to let you guys know I think this is happening again um I think I'm having some trouble with the listening so if you see that I'm leaving and coming back it's for that main reason I don't know why but sometimes I have some issues with listening our guests probably something yeah I have to update something or I don't know um so as always please if you have any questions about these topics we have uh from we have

people from De so this is very important just let me know if you can listen to me I'm sorry to ask you again but um yeah I can hear you loud and clear perfect okay so what can you tell us with uh what let lat latest news that you can provide us when it comes to the work that you've been doing uh the involve of course uh the end game yeah for sure uh regarding the endgame uh D has been tasked with the development of some modules that will be used for youth farming which is part of

the new cryptoeconomic model of uh well all this new phase so uh nothing is has been deployed yet like we're working working towards it but uh that's the the the main uh thing that we've been doing that is specific to to the end game and we've been doing some other uh development of B spoke smart contracts that like are related to the end game but they are not exclusive to it uh and other than that like we work on spells on a bi-weekly Cadence along with another team uh and we take turns uh into writing the the spell so um it

works like this like every two weeks more or less like one of the teams will craft the spell and the same team provides One reviewer and the other reviewer uh comes from the second team and we we take turns doing that yeah I think we were like also very uh a part well not not part of it but we saw that every now and then you have like updated updates not only on the Forum but also what you were doing asking for feedback asking for questions for community members uh if to keep updated on what you were doing uh the

work with uh the de in general right so and I and I do remember uh because I was like a um it was more like General but also you had to to ask for permission in the in the chat I I know I'm recalling it so we do have more questions um so Adam wither ask what are the scenarios in which an individual or group involved in the process could introduce malicious code into this spell for instance I believe the governance facilitator could deploy a different spell and replace the original if it goes unchecked are there other similar cases that could occur thank you Anam

Builder yeah so uh anyone can deploy any smart contract at any time because this is a permissionless uh Network so yeah they could do it but uh here's how we put checks and balances so first of all like it's not the governance facilitator that deploys the spell is actually the spell crafter uh we have a process in place that uh mandates that uh a spell can only be deployed after it has received the approval of two different reviewers and after that uh we publish the address like we we deploy the spell we verify the code uh on ether

scan or another uh source code repository that is uh available publicly and only after that like we publish in the new spells channel here on Discord which is public so anyone can see the contents uh the the crafter publishes it the reviewers acknowledge them and also the governance facilitator acknowledge them so uh in this case uh if the process is followed uh as it should like there's no way of uh sneakily replacing the spell address of course like there are always uh some level of trust that you you must have uh but uh we have the right checks and balances in place to

prevent like anyone from singlehandedly uh sneaking something into there like of course we all know each other and like if people wanted to collude and uh to to do that uh it would be very hard to to avoid that problem because this is not a complete trustless uh process at the moment and also to add to that there is this comment from Clocky it says the scenarios are numerous and detail within the governance security data Dam well it is comprehensive it does require significant effort to pass through inance a potential issue could arise

from collision between the spell crafter and reviewers do you want to add anything else to this yeah that's the reason why we have reviewers from different teams uh so it would be harder to to coordinate on that like uh do we and S stream the two uh teams are working on spells right now they are like independent uh entities and uh the the idea is that in the future we will have more teams doing that and uh we could establish some sort of rotation that is unpredictable uh by doing some sort of uh random uh choosing of crafters and reviewers and that would make the the

the coordination even harder but yeah at this moment I I wouldn't say it is completely uh trustless because uh the reason why we have so like only two teams is like because the these two teams they are trusted by the community by uh the facilitators from the ecosystem scope to carry out this task and and yeah that that's that's pretty much it uh I don't think I can add anything else thank you I I I there already and I'm loving it there are already more more questions and comments I first want to um to mention that this um the reason

why we reach out to to you to get to know more about the de the work on deis it's it's actually a suggestion from our ad Julia Chan and basically since there is this new I mean the drafter role invol s a lot of governance security and governance risk so basically to for you to tell us and to break down this uh this topic um like uh specifically to understand a little bit more how does governance risks um or what to take into account and how we can or yeah how can we be be able to cover them the Govern on risk

and yes probably this is very right uh but I want to be specific on the post that you I'm going to share also your mirror post so and also I've seen that on the sharing yeah yeah go ahead please yeah so the very nature of Mak your governance security is that this is a very old contract it was designed before uh we got like uh the contracts that uh are the most commonly used out there so we have I think the compound governance uh we have like the

go Governor Alpha Governor Bravo uh they all have like a specific design they are similar in many senses uh what is unique about maker governance is that uh it favors stability over change so for instance uh if you ever supported a spell before uh and you want to oppose a specific spell at a given point you basically have to do nothing if your vote power stays with a node spell which has already been cast uh it it is enough to secure the protocol so this is one of

the the features that that uh most people don't get about this but it it is important that people like actually use their governance tokens to secure the system and that's how it's been working since the Inception of M out since like pretty much uh when we back when we had single collateral die uh it works pretty much the same so that's the the the most important line of defense because like no action actually means like keeping the protocol secure so in order to get someone to uh in order for someone to pull an attack on let's say uh a faulty spell uh they would have to convince

everyone that that spell was correct uh and get enough support to to be able to cast a new spell and the the steps for that are uh explained in the the article that has been linked here I can let me paste the the link to this is the link to the blog let me paste the link to the the post itself so it explains uh with some nice memes how the entire process work there's a little bit of code there but like you don't have to understand code to to be able to understand this this article did I answer your question like

do you have any other specific risks in mind so we can go over them uh not is specific I think that that it's I would like the drafters that are here to take the moment to ask for this because yeah I don't know how do you see the link between the drafter role in governance security if you if you would like to to mention something about it but we do have um a a comment on on the chat from there as well it says oh yeah yeah I saw you open your mic yeah there's a question regarding the executive Doc and the executive

sheet right uh so here's how it works like the executive sheet is a Google spreadsheet which is controlled by governance facilitators uh and they use it to support the spell process before the executive dock is finished because what happens is that like executive dock is something that uh defines the content of the spell and usually it takes a long time for them to actually get the executive dock in the final form so in order to not delay the the process that much we use the executive sheet uh as a

a supporting material uh for crafting the spell uh before the executive dock is finalized but uh the executive sheet should match what whatever is in the executive doc so uh usually the crafter will use the executive sheet but when it's time for reviewers to actually review the spell uh they will base themselves on the executive Doc and on the sheet as well like to make sure they are uh up to with each other uh the executive the executive Doc is publish it on GitHub it's also done by governance uh the governance

facilitators uh the repo is public and anyone can inspect the contents at any time there's another question about uh delegates reviewing the code yeah if any the code is public like the code is verified so anyone that understands solidity a little bit can review the code and check if there are any problems and actually I think a couple of months ago one of the delegates caught a an error that went live in one of the one of the spells like we had uh 0.05 extra mkr being transferred for one

of the delegates by mistake uh and like that's skipped both reviewers and also governance uh hopefully this was like a very small mistake it was worth I think around $90 back then so and it was easily fixable so like we could simply transfer a little bit less to the same delegate in the subsequent pay but yeah usually this this shouldn't happen so we we may changes to the process to avoid uh mistakes in in such cases like we added like a check sum to the amounts being transferred and we also ensure that every amount being transferred is

specified both in the exact sheet and in the exact doc with two decimals no matter if it's an uh a whole number or not like it will always have two decimals yeah that wasn't like a very risky let's say mistake it was it was yes a mistake but it didn't like put the protocol in in in risk or in danger but it it's necessary so you can take some actions what would happen if it was not a minimum amount but a bigger amount so yeah uh yeah small amount yeah yeah for sure uh yeah it happened because uh like there

were some some amounts that had uh two two decimals the other amounts had the only one decimal and one of the one of these amounts like was misread by everyone uh and it happened but now this shouldn't happen again because like the the sheet has been changed uh also like we added some uh specific tests for for this to make sure that the amount being transferred like it sums up to check some and if it's off like we will know early in the process it's good to know that this one this won't happen again since you are really

taking this into account um it says if you as a trusted member of de de were inclined to exploit the system maliciously how might you go about it do you believe there are any vulner vulnerabilities that you could exploit yeah single-handedly it would be impossible to do it uh because uh one of the tests that uh like how would it work in theory I could uh craft a spell uh that looks legit but I would like under the hood deploy a different spell that does something different uh however uh there are some automated tests that compare

the local bite code compiled from the spell that the reviewers are uh working on uh against the bite code of the spell that is deployed on chain if they don't match then uh it will raise alarms it will look very suspicious and yeah the process will simply halt at that point so in order to do that I would have to uh collude with the other reviewers uh and most likely uh but the same the same thing can be carried out by the governance facilitators and anyone like any delegate that uh has access the repository is public so if anyone wants to check that they will be able to do so

and if they found a mismatch then it would not look good for us uh and uh it would simply uh there are so many ways that uh someone can prevent this from happening that I don't think it's feasible at this point even though it's possible but uh there are there is always uh someone looking into this and like we don't even know who is looking because everything is is public so yeah anyone trying to pull this off like they would have to be very lucky or like convince a whole bunch of people uh that this would be a good thing so I don't think it's feasible even though it's technically possible blue which is who is a drafter

is asking can you talk a bit about the difference we can expect from subow Bells compared to spells from Acer core and do you have any knowledge about when we start seeing subow spells yeah so uh spark is already a sub doll um pretty much uh it works like an isolation layer in such that subow spells cannot uh affect any parameter any contract they can't do anything effectively on core contracts so but the other way around is is correct like the the sub dolls are

control by the core uh in the current architecture so uh spark uh as you probably know is a fork of a uh and to be honest like I have very little familiarity with a codebase with with spark uh uh but uh the the system is designed in a way that like we don't need to know we simply treat it as a blackbox uh the maker core uh main governance contract controls the this uh another uh like there's this component which is the governance proxy all right uh everything on the core is owned by

the core governance proxy all right uh each subd will have its own subd proxy the subd proxies are controlled by the core proxy so anytime uh we need to execute uh an action uh on spark for instance it goes that the flow goes like this like from the core proxy the core governance proxy it activates the spark proxy and then it will execute in the cont in the context of the spark proxy but from from that context it's not possible to make uh any changes or updates to the core

they it's only they are only allowed to to act within spark itself and that will be replicated by other subd Dows I think that this also is kind of like some information at some point of course you are way more expert into the the topic of spells but yeah we we we were discussing also uh how was uh spark uh spark itself and Spark land um like the toonomic and also not only that but how independent in reality was going to be or uh like the advantages of

disadvantages of this uh governance structure uh very interesting actually uh true name ask are there uh op security best practices that teams follow to pre your individual user accounts from being hijacked and operated by someone else actually like uh there's no individual uh user account that holds any uh special sort of uh privilege in the system the system is designed this way so everything is owned by this governance proxy like whenever we deploy

new contract uh we we what we usually do is like right after we deploy it we transfer ownership to the governance proxy and uh there's no way to reclaim that uh to reclaim that that ownership back uh the only aspect I would say is like uh we have some operational uh accounts that we use mainly for deploying contracts and these accounts they hold like some ether to pay for gas uh so I think that that's the only part of the entire system that is liable so if if someone gets a hold of uh one of these uh private keys that we use for uh that we use for deploying they could Ste

uh part of the funds but other than that like we try to not keep a lot of funds there uh and we try to to minimize it like we try to optimize not be required to request for new money every time but also like we don't like to put a huge amount of ether there so that that the risk is controlled uh back in the days of contr engineering they had the they had the the practice of sharing the plur key so they would buy some secure mediums uh exchange the private keys and like reuse them uh we uh as we evolved from the

core unit uh model to a more decentralized one with different entities like we thought that this would be a risk uh so we decided to stop doing that and each developer they generate uh a new uh a new deployer key uh and like we can know for sure that is a new one because we can check the history of the transactions there and they encouraging should not share that with anyone should not put that in any uh tool that is not necessary and to use it solely for uh deploying and uh making transactions on behalf of maker

do oh thank you I think that that it's in uh probably some of these details are already on the but it's also very good to actually to to listen to what you have to say in order to this sometimes it's even more more clear when it's this way uh about it t says understood just to protect that whoever is operating as you is actually you and we're addressing impersonation risk for individual actors not the specific of the spell process directly that's why as if this involves the uh your work as a drafter true name and then um any work okay any work any communication oh yeah well yeah that

it it is even more important now uh anna build asked can a few 8s collude to Executives as spell crafted by them how much mkr will they need it to do it isn't it a threat to the system considering ads are Anonymous and could be the same person that managed to get mkr delegated to them yeah that's completely possible from at least from a technical perspective because uh the protocol is completely permissionless so anyone can deploy a spell anyone can vote for it and like once it obtains the control of the governance module then it can be executed uh the amount of mkr is required to do so is the amount of mkr

that is allocated to the current spell so like we can check that right now let us go to vote. make.com let's see which is the spell So currently the latest executive that was uh executed got 2,977 mkr so you need at least that amount plus one way worth of mkr to be able to pull this attack so uh let me see how much that translates in n KR Q USD so that

is 345 M9 69,6 66 us do at the prices of today okay that I mean again thank you for the the exact amount I think this is perfect um but to complement the the your names comment and they are giving actually clock is giving an example and this is perfect I think that the best way that we can prevent all types of risk is to

put in in situations and to be as best the most specific as we can so cook says um someone hijacking a spell reviewers g j GitHub account and signing off on a malicious spell like what are the chances that this can happen yeah they will have to do that for both reviewers at the same time um and like they will also have to get access to their Discord because there the process mandates the confirmation of the spell being hand over to be done by the person that the reviewer which was assigned uh to the spell in the public uh new spells channel so like yeah the will have to

hijack both the the both the GitHub account and the Discord account of both reviewers at the same time to be able to do it and also collude with the crafter so if you if you could put that into a percentage like it's like a I don't know 50% or like 90% or 0% yeah it's really hard to quy that because like we're we're talking about a process like officially we have three people involved but extra officially like anyone looks into it like I I for myself for instance I wasn't part of the spell roster uh of this week like I'm

not an official reviewer but I'm looking at the content and I found a small issue that that I've like to the guys so like there is always everyone watching so uh I I don't think is is feasible but I I don't know how to quantify this to be honest like I I I I think like uh for instance in uh de with organization on GitHub uh we mandate that every developer has uh two Factor authentication enabled so in order for someone to hijack uh the account of uh someone like they would have to hijack their phone and get access to their Google Authenticator uh and like if you can

also do that for Discord so if people are mindful about security I would say it's pretty much impossible to pull this attack okay I think that we are asking a lot about this uh well I don't know but uh since there are I mean delegates are Anonymous and I don't know if you've know but several delegates have been uh taken down because of their governance I the security um they have been in a way or another their privacy has been acknowledged so uh that involves of course security and so yeah we will ask a lot of questions uh when it comes to to security and also because

of the fact that we have to to take into account I think more now I mean always but now more more than ever with uh we are getting closer and closer to the lunch season and and um what all of these that involved so yeah just to kind of to put it out but doesn't matter like it helps a lot what you mentioned like it's not that I needed to hear in specific quantity but just how you are aware of of this situation or possibility now blue yeah those aspects of like uh upack uh they are like not exclusive to maker out crypto like they are for pretty much everyone like it can

be even worse like in uh traditional environments because like uh everything that we produce uh at maker out is public either way so this is not a problem like information leaking uh but yeah like this sort of uh mindfulness of the security aspects of like your credentials uh the tools you use like it's something that uh we take very seriously and yeah as we said like uh we identified one of potential Vector of attacks would be like the sharing of uh private keys for deployer uh accounts and we decided to stop doing that so that was was one of uh specific action

that we took uh as for like GitHub uh for GitHub organizations like we don't have access or like we don't have way to influence uh other teams uh accounts on GitHub to enforce there there's an option on GitHub that you can uh enforce that anyone that is part of your organization enables true Factor authentication but uh I can only do that for organizations that I control so uh we we for sure do that I'm pretty much confident that Sid stream does this as well but I'm not sure about like other teams I'm not sure about governance facilitators I would say they do because like they inherited all the the

knowledge of uh the old goala team they were trained by them so I guess that uh they try to strive for security I also know like for instance uh they are very cautious on uh how they access Discord and uh things like that they're always behind the VPN they are stying to protect their identity because it's important but yeah other than that like yeah it's just like uh having good uh how I put this having good online hygiene like uh but that that goes for anyone these days like a lot of our lives are online so if we don't take care like if we reuse passwords if we

use like weak passwords uh somehow like data will get leaked and we're GNA be uh we're GNA have our accounts hijacked it at some point but we try to avoid that to the best of our abilities totally yes we call it actually onchain hyene in internally but yeah I completely agree on that uh blue blue mentioned which difficulties do you see if any in having governance security implemented into the atas framework and here's the specific question some parts are immutable some are not and the procedures are likely to be quite prescriptive detail do you have any hopes you would like to express for us to take us into account when drafting

yeah so the reality is like not a lot of things are immutable uh these days but we will for sure move towards that direction in the future like uh we foresee that the core will become pretty much alifi uh in the future and uh everything that requires changing is going to be pushed into subd dos because there that's the the way that we can contain we can uh limit the the amount of risk uh being taken like if uh one subow uh they up like in theory it shouldn't affect the other

subd Dows and we're gonna uh try to move towards that direction but to be honest I I don't know like uh how this is going to look in the future because like we're too early for that so sorry CH not be able to to give a more concrete answer at this point yeah we understand we um this is the thing always is like yeah we don't have that or it's confidential we don't know yet so yeah we we're kind of of used to to this but bringing back um U TR name question it was whether uh there are specific as practice rules the team

follow to to protect their to protect their accounts can you tell us sorry can you repeat please sure I me just read are you a question was whether there are specific best practice rules the team follows to protect their accounts yeah I guess it's the the the things that we that I I I just uh talk a little bit about like having TFA enabled for everything like using vpns uh not sharing uh private Keys all of that uh combined that there there's nothing there's nothing specific to make

it out to crypto in general like it's just like regular good old uh online hygiene uh taken seriously yes we we we discussed this a few minutes ago so yes I don't know if there is any other question uh what advice would you give us to would you give to to drafters like what can they make the most of their work when it comes to give uh maker right um the most value they can well I I guess like uh the best way is just being like this Watcher that

because like a big part of like the the game theoretic aspect of it is that like people they need to behave because they don't know who's watching so they don't if they try to to they try to collude they try to misbehave uh somehow like they would have to be very lucky because uh somewhere there is someone that understand that can understand what's going on and like they can't call you out in a minute and like since like we're unknowns in a sense that like we try to protect our identity

but uh my unknown has like uh reputation at least within like this community so like if I up uh I'll most likely uh not be able to keep working with the protocol and like if words if the word spread and like uh people uh like of course I could always come back and like with another Alas and try to be someone else but for sure there are ways to like identify it as myself so for instance I'm talking here so anyone could use voice recognition software if I were to come back with a different uh with a different Alas and in the

future uh so I I think like the the the best way to for people to to collaborate is like always always uh apply that maximum on that we have like that saying we have in crypto that is don't trust verify so U keeping the checks and balances in place is is the thing that is the most important here I'd say yeah and what do you think about now that um of course delegates in the past were not unnown right uh do you think that this is better for I don't know if

you have an opinion on this this is better for for governance in general yeah I'd say that um whether you build your reputation around a name a real name or like a Nas like with it just it's just an avatar on the internet it makes no difference because like uh anyone can be anyone online so I could like pretend I'm someone else like with a real name real pick and like create a whole sort of uh fake online fingerprint that would

people would think that I'm a real person but in reality I'm not so I don't think there's a way around it so it doesn't make much of a difference uh and as I said like there are ways like to to know if someone uh like let's say someone uh is an is an unknown and like they did something that the community community didn't like uh and they tried to come back uh with another identity like there are ways like to to be able to at least uh put the Trust on that new identity in check like you could use voice analysis software you could use like uh tools

that analyze the way people write there's a name for that I don't remember right now but like you could like with uh certain degree of certainty uh you could you could you could know if that's the same person as before so if someone just like uh uh ventilates that possibility like that new identity usually uh will lose the trust of the community itself and like you can repeat this process at a terum and it's not foolproof of course like and anyone has someone has to actually put the effort to prove that that person is uh the same one as before but like it's completely doable so I think in the end of the day

it doesn't matter if you are unknown or not like I I think having the right incentive the right checks and balances is what will move us forward regardless of if we're a bunch of avatars on the Internet or like real persons talking to each other that's a very interesting point of view and when it comes to regarding well we have discussed a little bit about uh the drafter work um well the questions they have we don't have that much information yet about the reviewers I don't know if you know anything or how is that Dynamic uh involving the

drafters in in and for example do is like do you have like a like workshops uh internally or do you have like a like a chat group and you collaborate with with the drafters how how how is it uh how do you work together uh sorry for the potentially dumb question but like what is that you are calling a drafter oh it's like the the new roles for the Del specific uh ecosystem Alors that are going to be involved in a in the Next

Generation outlet and are like changing certain uh I don't know like articles and and involved that now are very involved in to risk governance or risk security and uh actually ABCs and this ABC sering Finance ABC was going to be a reviewer but know things have completely changed and the the main reason why we have you here it's because of that because now drafters that some of them are here it's blue it's it's true name it's Clocky uh well they are involving into kind of like creating or redesigning um the atlas in a way this has been for

a long time but it has had many changes so far is this way with these two roles um and again it was supposed to be that ABCs are going to be the reviewers of the work that the drafters were going to made but now it's it has it has changed but my question was regarding that if you are but I guess it's no the answer is no but yeah to to be honest like uh it's kind of hard to follow everything and like keep up with with the dayto day work so yeah most of the time like we something new pops up and we need like okay so

what's this new thing uh because if like we try to follow like and game on a day-to-day basis but at some point it just became phys but uh as of like speaking of communications like uh what we are here on Discord so anyone is free to Bing us uh either me or Effie or the crypto or the other guys like that you see has like the do is badge uh so this has been like everyone is from our team like this uh is handled by the governance facilitators uh we also do have our own Discord server uh that we uh encourage people to join if they want to discuss

because things that are specific to what we've been uh working on and yeah that that's that's uh I think I think that's a a two ways with like uh whenever we have something that we need uh input from you guys like we we come and ask and you can always count on us as well for that so yeah yeah I think this is a uh it's very interesting it's not yeah there are so many things happening at end time that it's very understandable uh but I think I want to believe that there are no other questions that uh the delegates or

community members have in general regarding this this topic if you do this is this is the moment to to ask uh if not well first of all thank you so much I don't know if there's anything else that you would like to add that you haven't mentioned regarding regarding uh governance security R security This spells in a specific uh that you haven't mentioned yet please go ahead no I don't think so I think yeah we covered uh quite a few things uh and yeah if anything any other question pops up so feel free to reach out and ask them

like in either DMS or public channels so yeah perfect so thank you so much uh can you can you tell me how can I pronounce your username so I don't Mis read it's amusing Axel okay I'm using Exel perfect that was easy thank you so much for for coming and uh to all the questions there were actually a lot of questions uh regarding this and I'm pretty sure it has to do because they they're working on on on this so thank you everyone and we have a quite a few minutes uh if you would like to stay if

you have to leave it's up to you am using Exel uh but there are C I think we have just for one last topic although I think it will be best to to give it to for last for next week uh I think we're all very excited regarding the fact that finally we're going to have some news on the reviewer side even though yes uh ABCs are going to um are going to leave I just want to mention that um in sere finance ABC are going to continue working we're going to have the every call I mean every week with the position documents everything the same because yes the PA mentions that there are going

to be um no more ABCs but it doesn't specify when until then yeah everything is going to remain this same and uh what we do suggest is to let us know um what's the best way for this work this quarter to make the most of it so you already know our Dynamics so if you have any suggestion on that please let us know we are very eager to uh elb's meeting in uh this morning for Vi viewers even though of course we know that um it's going to be with the new roles it's I yeah everyone please should should go and um we have all these new topics that probably uh if it involves

stability scope we are going to um cover them if not in in the next um protocol scope uh please be I'm very excited for for next scope because we are going we have a a possible guest I'm not gonna mention yet but it's it's a very interesting scope SC with all the changes that are happening and also again I encourage you to watch the Tel's um um recording call that we have last week it has a lot of um details on the SP spk token on the spark land on the sub governance uh I mean subda governance structure and also we'll discuss a little bit of our idea for for

next week with uh from dma's idea that actually it was also covered in maker a few years ago that is all everyone thank you so much bye-bye okay [Music]