16° AVC Subcommittee meeting | Accesibilty Scope | Sovereign Finance | Maker DAO - Parte 2

Transcript

times questions come up later so there it is um again one more time thank you and we're going to move on to our next section uh just remember that we are in the accessibility scope so um we following this uh relevant that we're going to bring out now which is um is a post from long for wisdom and it was about a do redundant storage in IPS uh ipfs so uh what's Happening Here it's h basically the there is this problem um and in the document it mentions that documentation or what longan for wisdom mention is that

documentation at maker needs a responsible stakeholder so um the state of the projects documentation let's say it's not it's not bad it's not it's not terrible but the problem is that it's h never fully up to date it's never updated um and this problem continues for different H documentations not just one specific uh I'm going to share also the link of this post so you can all can see them um one thing that uh it's he mentions is that he finds that the book it's highly effective and it's user

friendly for documentation and so what they suggest is H to maintain it in addressing centralization concerns by mirroring content on decentralized protocols rather than replacing gbo entirely and so uh we are going to focus on actually this part of the post which is basically about the Dow redundant storage and ipfs um so um loan for wisdom and I'm going to also mention here ER fando agf which is the the from jetsmart so they work on reducing maker Do's Reliance on

jha for storing um relevant session documentation and this by mirroring it own ipfs so let me share with you the link there was an update in this um bringing this up and so um data Tov store we have both text PLL in executive documentation dedicate information and this is the the solution uh interplanetary file system so files are store and access directly between individuals notes and not from a

central server and H how we ensure that the data will remain P appropriate amount of ipfs so this is what current is the current challenge something El that they um mentioned here is that um well they're they developed a solution using um DG workflow boots to mirror content to a backup repository so ensuring redundency by um pinning data to multiple IP FS nodes and So the plan is that ecosystem actors and subow uh I mean they were expected to use their own

thirdparty spinning Services uh this was a long-term plan to expand the solution to allow users to easily ining their local ipfs notes with maker document list um but in the post also uh it's mentioned of course that the project was not complete um and the proposal we we're putting in here and there was an update on this uh well basically the the PowerHouse team has generated an ipns link for users to bookmart and they plan to regularly update this link with

um the latest content for from the forums um making it uh a current directory for ipfs files um I don't know if anyone has any insights or comments on these like I'm going to check also okay something else that we want to bring up in here it's uh as one of our um post recent post that we mentioned it's about we want also getting our 80s more involved with this so with with

the the weekly calls we received documentation from clockies and from Blue so uh we're going to share also this part so uh about this scope um something that Clocky PS out it's of and I think uh we can agree it's the lack of clarity uh regarding the H retroactive transparency for lunch project fund allocation after the beta launch um so there is considered to include details about the accessibility chat which is is another aspect as well uh or specifying responsible

individuals um something that Clocky Point points out in t mentation it's uh the importance of the accessibility chat as a safe learning space for newcomers to understand the system without complexities of governance politics um also is something very similar about this um about having documentation that it's basic that are um Target to people that are starting learning about maker it's uh it's also in Lo for wisdom's post he mentioned that they were working on on this but of course we know that

they're no longer active in in maker anymore so um I think this is something that involves everyone about having documentation also to a specific Target of people that are staring in maker ecosystem having uh accessible in in the Forum and so let's move on to this is what clock point out and when it comes to the relevant topics from last five weeks well he also mentions about the expansion of the launch H project budget this is the modification that run H made um and the withdrawal of mkr from the

launch project budget I don't know if there's anything else that you would like to um to point out here that we haven't mentioned Hy you can also type it on the chat 3 there was to do can we please uh can you share the link so we can have also updated the slide paper Imperium thank you so much for being here and I see also clock is typing so before moving on to blu's comment from this scope well okay you and now let's move on to

Blue he points out about the concern raised by Porter Smith which is the complexity of funding and nuring diverse communities and that this specific concern it's not addressed in this in in the scope uh there is something that I'm going to quote just because I don't want to have it uh my interpretation could be wrong so I'm going to just H quote it and so I'm going to it says this is not addressing the scope and it feels like it's success is Left

To The Winds of Fate um so the suggestion that he put in here is to consider supporting or engag agent Community managers to address this concern effectively um so how can we do this because we have also kind of like suggestions ideas propos not proposals but ideas and so now we need more insights into this specific topics uh thank you so much Clocky and blues uh I don't know if we have another document from our ads that would like to share with us or point out this is so the time that to share with it with us give like a minute and if not

um okay let's move on um there's not uh I slide about this but I think that everyone is aware about ped who is actually it's PB here um post so we're going to give a couple of minutes to Pedro and to we have also Sebastian here H thank you for being here Sebastian so this a couple of minutes are going to be uh for them to explain their insights and point of view if they had questions about each other and something that they haven't already mentioned it well this is going to be the time um there please take as much time as you need and so now

I'm going to give you the word h Pedro okay thank you very much Chris and first of all SE thank you very much for coming H the first thing I I want to highlight and I must be intellectually honest is that in in response to my questions I made on the Forum your reaction was to come back to the ABC meeting to talk which is very positive and speaks very well of you so thank you um I would like like to start this discussion by reading a short comment that was made today on Discord by to which I believe it reflects the overall framework of this discussion and

also allows us to introduce the topic to those who haven't been following the Forum or Discord in the recent days so um my quote the selling points points of die over usdc usdt or others to me is that it is a similar operational and business setup but with full onchain transparency and governance but this breaks down when the offchain stuff becomes very opaque so my strategic goal would be to make it as transparent as possible for governance because why hold I versus USD if you think both have some unclear of chain deals that will blow up maybe even preference to something like

usdc or USD then because they don't have to go through long onchain governance staff to get something done but in long term I think that transparency wins out out so thank you very much for being here and my first question would be if you have any comments or reflection on on this quote thanks for having me on this call I mean we are always happy to to come on quot as much as we can so on your quote I mean we are sharing the same goal and it's interesting because if you look the last work that stos provided I mean there was a lot of concerns about uh cdale being a blackbox and questions of

f mainly where is the money maybe it's not here uh so I've worked and I mean it's wasn't done in one day I mean things take time m is not the easiest political environment to work with so it took a few months and I published or published uh granular detail on all transaction made in the Signum bank account and and a dashboard showing day by day uh what is happening so I think that's more transparencies that usdt usdc or well any stable coin um and so that's I think we are completely align if you also look at what we posted on

the form this afternoon and again that's something we I worked personally for the last three years if you look my original post a few years ago I always present this Vision that off share chain is bad and we should move offchain obviously there is TB will go on chain at some point but to take time uh so we need to have a token that we invest in there is a price feed it's like usdc I mean when we make started you invest in usdc there was a lot of f about good or bad I don't judge about well usdc is a real ass said super risky super Shady now everyone is using usdc and no one cares anymore so I think that's the past and the P we are I

think we are all agreeing what we might disagree in some ways is to how to get there and but I think if you look at uh all we've done the make the stos team since 2020 I think we are one of the most transparent team that exist and I don't take this statement lightly I mean we have people say that we worked a lot to improve transparency in defi uh I have the link here but we can find them uh and so it's I understand that nothing is perfect and to be honest I would say that make it out to your statement transparency is not very good but it is what it is and if we don't try to

improve it we are not going to make the end game in the sense of being transparent as your statement implies which on which we all agree I guess yeah um I agree that we all want the same we have the same goal that is improving transparency also I will go back to the to the post to the today's post of you that you mentioned earlier because it's very interesting and I think that if you want to comment on this later it would be awesome um but a question I I've been making to myself and I couldn't find the the exact answer in the Forum um I've seen that in the Meep 113 it say that you have a facilitator

budget but I've seen that you said a couple of times that you're are no longer facilitator so I would like you to introduce St sakow Financial as if you were new and please clearly outline the task that you are assigned as an ecosystem please uh yeah so I'm maybe not the best person because I'm not following all the details of the end game plan if you want M more make a is complex there is a complex governance system and I'm quite sure you are super aware of this one we are kind of the the experts uh but at the same time there is a lot of complexity I mean we should still go back to the point of we are managing or the Mead Community is managing the life

savings of5 billion dollar of people that trust make out to survive and we need to thrive and there was were more complicated uh uh eras where madal was losing money so that's what a lot of stress for everyone because if you lose money at some point uh well it's it's very bad deag ofc and so on so it's a lot of technical stuff to manage and a lot of stress already so we cannot know human is able to comprehend the world complexity of make as a world and I'm just a human so I'm more on the technical stuff so on this part for stos the way I think it is really that we are an ecosystem actor

not a facilitator I understand that that in the MEAP it's we are in with the facilitators but uh if you look on the documents it's clearly say that it's include as well non facilitators and uh we are ecosystem actors to provide well and I know paper will say well we are not allowed to do Financial advice and financial advice is sense of outting we do a lot of reporting uh we created the first financial statement for uh for for Dows really you little bit but uh a bit differently but yeah we we are known to provide a financial statement of protocol economics uh since the beginning you have to remember that at

the point there was a protocol and no one knew how much was spent how much revenu there was and it was just a big mess m is doing a great job as well and we are also doing so we are we weren't supposed to do real assets uh and if you look at the history you can see why it's a bit ironic but uh we are managing real world asset because the community decided to fire the real world finance Care Unit more or less and there was no one to manage it and where ex this F is and we decide well I mean if no one can do it we will do our best to try to to do it and so that we did it wasn't to go at the beginning and it was just I mean

if no one wants to do it we have to do it and we have the expertise so we started to take over the real assets that who the previous team didn't do anything for the well since uh since uh the previous facilitator of was fired which was myself uh and uh so we had to start from scratch and take it from almost nowhere so we try to do our best and obviously uh it's not easy to understand wi asset and sorry I'm going somewhere but I kind of forgot your answer so maybe you can put me back on track I don't want to waste the time of the no it's it's definitely not a a waste of time

um so oh yeah it was what was stos Finance I think if you want to summarize stos Finance is we are trying to to do what your skill set is more profitable for m i mean there probably something more clear somewhere but doing what is best for mea with a competency I think that's what we should do as a moral state okay thank you very much that's um clear so uh going to the to the core of of my Forum post where um I stated that I believe that stakeholders are not receiving the the easy digestable information that that they need in order

to to make informed decisions I I believe that your financial reports are are awesome they are very good but for instance when when we join the da we try to start understanding how realware does it work and how me da was allocating resources and it's true it's really complex ER I'm it's this is evident but I believe that maybe some kind of communication could be improved in order to make this complexity easier to understand to those who are not Financial experts technical experts just simply stakeholders that want to make well-informed decisions and do you do you believe there an aspect on your reports that could be improved to to

reach this goal so I think in final information is uh come in many layers and I think I'm trying but failing obviously to distillate in a very high level strategic uh way uh back in the day it's no longer the case with the new setup but there was a governance call every week was it every week yeah I think it was every week so every month we presented the the financials reports uh and uh all the work we've done and two questions uh to BU memories there was not many questions uh and so the final report is quite the same it evolved it's

getting a bit more complex because micho is be becoming more complex but uh it's evolving and obviously there is complexity so you you are right to ask well it's complex I mean at the same time I would say you are managing the life savings of five billions of dollars in which World wouldn't it be complex I mean I work for a financial institution it's super super complex and most people if try try don't know what they are doing in the first place and I couldn't compar most of what they are doing anyway if you work on solven c 2 on B 3 which is a regulatory framework for insurance and Banks 99% of of people in Banks don't know it and

99.9999% of people being clients of Bank have no clue what is happening in the bank so that's a very big challenge that we have as D because we want to onard more uh stakeholders and I think stakeholders should have simple kpis and that's I mean that's something we are trying to spend quite some time at steakhous internally as well on think well we should simplify the framing but when we simplify the framing you are removing some important stuff you try to keep the most important stuff but you are removing some important stuff and for me really U and what I try to tell to community and community on the other hand wants to do something else is to

abstract complexity and focus on what what matters and The Business of make is super simple it's to make the maximum Revenue because revenue is good if you want to finance public goods it's good if you want to survive because you have expenses so you don't need to make a lot of revenues and being constrained by two constraints one is to be solvent to have more assets than liabilities because if backed die is unbacked you can have a run on a bank and liquidity because we don't have any contractual obligation to redeem die at $1 except at the emergency shut down uh but uh people want to have die at $1 be able to get one usdc so

those are the two constraint and if you start top down I mean it's quite simple then you can decide what liquidity and one question I ask many times to commit and usually never got an answer I don't I don't think there was any pool to Define really what means to be Dy to be liquid is it to always get one usdc is it to get one usdc one gusd or one usdp or is it to well you get 0.999 USC and that's a good P because that's a most one of the most important parameters that governance can decide and that's I mean quite simple do

you want the P to be one or is 999 0999 good enough I mean you don't have to me a mathematician or a computer scientist to have an opinion on that now what's uh the is asking usually is more oh there is some issues or some something that makes the news of the day and it's always changing uh on real asset it's always real asset for for some reasons I mean for the last three years it was always real asset things can blow up somewhere else no one care real asset are more more interesting for people which I completely understand why um and then they want to dig very deep on the topic

and that there yes but on this line of the agreement that we signed without without understanding all the implications what are the comp the consequences of having this who decide to put this sentence and you go in very technical details you want one kpi and just finding the definition of the kpi and we can do the exercise I mean I'm quite happy with it uh would take a few months and would not not be super easy um to to find so this is the question is it better to go top down from decision

strategic governance decisions or going back to points of details of specific real world asset deals and that I think the way of we fail to explain or maybe we are wrong that's possible as well to say well what is important at the governor or at the stakeholder level is what what really matters as a die holder I don't care if make spend 1 million on something completely stupid I'll lose one million in a real asset what I care though is is Mak still profitable and is Makow uh still backing my dies and Can I exit die for usdc or another stable coin one to one that's what

matters and those small details of micromanagement in some ways are a bit less important and getting focused and I completely understand that you have focus on one pop up popup every day just like on Twitter if you go on crypto Twitter every day it's a different topic and the next week everyone forgot about the topic of the last week but really what is important in my view at list is to protect theer and then and only after it's to make makeer a wealthy protocol so it can have grow and provide more services to more people around the globe I don't know if it's clear on this part yes thank you for your for your

complete answer and I believe that I agree with you that it's really important or that your main task is to to make make her profitable and it's that's perfect and I agree that that should be your or it is your your main job but H I believe that also I believe that we need effective communication for the Dow to understand what is going on because it's not always about okay these guys are performing the task in an excellent way we we have to trust that you are doing it in a in the in the perfect way or that you are taking care of the assets while not understanding why sometimes numbers are as they are or maybe something

is being debated in the Forum and then uh police requested without the the sufficient information to to take to make a decision um I I I in my post I I clearly stated that I am not mistrusting you or are saying that you are doing things wrong but we have a problem of communication of information of information flow so I don't know for for instance um the reports so you have D loan balance the de ceing monthly and yearly stability is paid to the Dow but maybe they could have also another kind of information so I don't know which is the stability fee which is the actual

fee being paid why is that different from one to another what expect expectation was one Fe and why is another arriving to the Dow what is if there is some unrealized orain money and why is that happening or when is that money expected to come to the Dow like some details that in the end always it was proven that it's just lack of communication or it's not a problem of I am lying about the numbers it's a problem that we cannot know effectively which the numbers are or which the reasons behind the numbers are so I don't I know that you you think or you yes you think that this task is hard and

it's a waste in some sense a waste of time but all this ER sort of drama I don't want to take it there or this questioning would not be here if that kind of information was easily provided I know maybe you think that you shouldn't be the the guys doing that job ER maybe you think that the Dow should hire someone else to to do the effective communication and work beside you to do it maybe we should know know that what do you think about that yeah sure so so I I I agree I mean I'm I'm more for full transparency usually and that's what we St usually if you look at all

the queries are public and for instance we publish The Ledger of cdale and we are the first one and now we getting the feedback that oh you are not transparent I mean we change the solution from no ledger to one Ledger with all the transaction that we are allowed to publish and I would frame it differently if you look at all the agreements of asset we are not managing any money we don't have control of any money we don't have access to most of the information neither and that was decided by Z da when they created unvalid Z asset so that was decided by governance cannot change it and uh

usually there is a reporting already and so it's I think a bit unfair to say well you're not reporting stuff yeah but we don't have the information to start with and what we are doing is to go beyond if you look um and obviously there with a lot of politics as well so we cannot and I'm not throwing data and anyone uh but if you want to open uh to yeah we we are limited by what you can do and that's kind of in some ways the do that limiting us for instance HVB uh we didn't have access to to the people managing H so it took us a few

months just to get access to what we have today there was a report but it was completely impossible for human beings to understand and I mean even at sters we didn't follow the money and because I was missing some information to get this information it was a few months of negotiation because from the point of view of the trust managing hbb we are no one they have no reason to speak to us so you need to create create relationship and so on so it takes time so if you look carefully so I understand that you want more but you are asking it from sters which is not uh mandated to do it and doesn't have the capacity to do

it and we try to still try to do it the best we can maybe that's that's the issue if we didn't do nothing and say well it's not a job see with the other guy maybe that would be better for Stak house and now you want to different because we tried to do something that wasn't in our mandate okay that's uh fair point if you can't do it because you don't have access to the information I think that you you're right you you simply can't can't do it would you give a an advice to the DA on how to address this issue I don't I know you don't have the the access to the information but maybe what can can be

done um so what I understand still uh from working for three years at mik I completely understand that people that don't want to share information uh because in every any information would be used against you that's the basic rule and you printed it correctly use many of my quotes against me in the for post so and that's not an issue for me but it shows a cultural problem if you don't let people to explain oh yeah that was an issue that's life it happens and you're always going after them or they say well there was a delay in a bank bank transfer and then aggressively people come wait but you

should follow it or oh we sld the TB took I don't know three weeks to to move but you should move it faster it's super low performance is not there you are you sucks more it's what community is saying sometimes well that's not a good healthy environment that's not how we progress as the community I would say and I would maybe if I was Community I would say exactly the same thing for sure but it's the PVP environment is not helping for people to to provide more information because it's always against them if you look steakhous if you look on the Forum the steakhous team is the one that

was threatened to be fired and fired the most and it's Al the one if you look at Discord that was more onclin to runer that provide more information the more statement about what we did this kind of correlation isn't healthy in my view um I didn't mean by any any at any moment wanted to imply or mean that you should get fired or off boarded that's out of the table well defunded mean fired H again please you you say that we shouldn't be paid which is kind of the same thing I no no no I was proposing

that an option to make the ecosystem actor give the information that is needed to all the stakeholders to understand the data could be to cut off payments I just posted a request for comments that was the whole point to to make a to make ideas flow through the Forum that I believe is the perfect place to to discuss this kind of of of topics I didn't try to imply that you should be fired that was not my my goal and it's not my goal and yes but the sentiment is and the experience of Miko is that way and because I mean I don't know how long have you been working at mikow or collaborating with mikow but it's an

highly political environment and if you threat someone to get defended it's because you want it to be defended and so you're just laying keys to get to the situation that's of game it's not against you at people if you look at other people what their behavior is they have a Target they have a goal but they are just having playing the long term and so when someone is asking the same question over and over and it's working it's to spread a narrative I mean that's political

one1 I am not um going to to comment on on narratives or it's just things that I've been seen in in Forum where um delegates don't get the answers so I I want to know how to to make those answers appear because they need to to make or to take informed decisions and they are not always experts on financial suspects and they need to rely on a professional to get those answers and when they don't get them how they are voting to decide if if a real world asset has to reduce the ceiling or to move for instance to move the the ETF to

T bills how do they decide if they don't have the full information so that was my point yeah and that's an interesting point how did they decide MH I mean stos didn't provide any any didn't issue the proposal stos is not the fa the scope facilitator so doesn't have any unability or responsibility of putting the poll on the on the vote and we are not informed and people are still voting on it and I

think the vote was an only person to move it so how is it the case that steakhous is involved in this transaction okay you are you are the the expert who do you think the or who would you advise the the stakeholders to rely on when they need extra information well you can ask the person uh you can asking you can ask the person proposing the pool why do you propose it to f to start with I don't know if it was done I mean I wasn't following this one it wasn't topic of my interest if you want information on this one you can tag stups which again I mean if we are doing analysis of everything we will not move forward uh and I mean because we can

have a dose attack on capacity to work that's another issue that we need to to face is that we have a bondway and we have a lot of work to do and if we cannot make the work we are paid for uh getting results and then committee can say well you're not getting any result and I think we are already super late on plenty of stuff because well there is just so many stuff to be done uh and you have a scope facilitator what did you try to reach the scope facilitator which decide to put the poll on the vote and ask them why they did

okay will do thank you very much so and you have the advisor as well of the of the scope because we are not adviser of the scope neither okay thank you very much so my last question would be about the post of today h do you want to make any comment or explain about the tokenized tables it's very cool and I think maybe you want to take the time to to explain it yeah sure as we discussed at the beginning um offchain is bad I'm simplifying but offchain is bad it's complex uh people want to have more information um uh

and I think what we learn with the stable coins is that they are quite good at showing information I mean I wouldn't trust them too much but in some ways they are still better than than no sorry let's reframe just like the end game separating responsibilities and making make a c smaller is a good thing uh that I I fully agree and if you can put on the market to provide tokenized T bills well it's probably better than deciding one day oh we can do tokenized T bills let's do it let's put us trust in BVI and Cayman let's High let's

put all the agreements on The Forum so everyone can read them uh that would not uh that as you can see I don't know how many people here read all the agreements but for yanity I hope not many to too many too many people I guess kunga read them read them all and so on but most people don't have time for that and shouldn't because you cannot understand it's it's Madness um so one solution is to use third parties and the market the free market uh is usually helping us decide who is the best cter party because they get more tvl which actually doesn't work because USD is the best T coin in this metric but anyway you can

assume that market will find what are the good compto parties and you can allocate to them and then you have a token representing a position and you have a price feed and for instance uh we discussed on the chart about ib1 so you have ib1 which is an TF of zero to one year T builds issued by iar which is Black Rock uh which is quite a good proxy for TS this one you can track the price everywhere else everywhere on internet you tap uh ib1 market cap on Google and you will find the price and so there is no question what is the price what is the performance that is here all to see and that was I why I was quite bullish on

starting with IB one ibta as a first investment from from a long time and I think first time I proposed this solution was in November 2021 so a few years ago uh but that's we need an OP structure we need trusties uh I set up some trust offshore entities for that or helped to set them up and it's quite a lot of complexity you need lawyers you need the corporate servicer let's say trusties and when you want something to change you need the D resolution we check ages because you need first D resolution to be crafted then you need the legal firm to review

it because director of the trust or let's say the truste don't want to take any risk because you have a fin Duty uh that's take a few weeks and then there are some change to be made you need the lawyer to analyze whatever impact can be in the US and so on so it's super complicated it's taking a long time I mean on HVB we have worked for uh five months now to just get the money back uh because we used Galaxy digital first then they lost a bank account so the money was blocked well sent back to uh to the trust then they gave us a new address to send the money to it took us one month because governance process are

what they are to put one or two months two months I think uh to to change the us the trusty sent the money and the bank account was already closed so you're just wasting time of everyone and not getting any result it's a very Arcane and complex topic uh nothing to worry about really because in TR it's difficult to lose money not like not like on ethereum but there are a lot of complexities and a lot of people and having five people to to work together when they are on different time zone and so it's quite quite complex so obviously if you can delegate that to a token that everyone can see on ethereum the

blockchain that the token can be redeemed for usdc most of the days the price is this price most of the day it should be let's say for instance a back i01 well you know the price of back ib1 because it should be the price of ib1 at it's one to1 so you can see on Black Rock website what are all the potion every day and what is the net asset value and so on so that's a lot of transparency that can can add in this way so that's why we try to move in this direction uh then obviously it's getting something done in a big organization like m is complex because you need governance processes you need legal analysis you need to have political

support and that I mean I'm not sure in community you see it but that's super important to show when you want something to happen because i' see first motivation for the people to do it to fight the bureaucracy and get things done and second to yeah to just have a trend and again let's come back to narrative situation everything is a narrative so if you want something to be done you create the narrative to to get there so yeah so that's I think having things on chain will provide a lot of clarity and that's why the situation we have today I mean and that's completely up to you if you think we should still have off Shain structures in five years and

having discussion about where is the money and is it really the spreadsheet or is it just a lie well we can keep it this way but or we can move to third party providers and they really have attestation and they will work all day long to get Audits and so on so I think it's a good direction but obviously that's up to make to decide okay thank you very much SE for for coming again to to talk I don't know if you want to make any final comment um no maybe I wanted your feedback on what do you think about the situation and the explanation I gave to you if

they are satisfactory or if you are still thinking that some uh some lack of transparency and uh something I I we didn't discuss but I think if you want lowlevel information or not or high level information or simple stuff I mean you need to have a translator I think there was go goom governance communication back in the days it was the job of this entity to make the link between the core units and the governance and maybe you should fix the situation by having goom that takes the expert work simplify it show what is really important and alert community on what

matters okay that's an interesting proposal and regarding my feedback and thank you very much for your for your explanations I think I I understand a bit more what's your job or what's your your tasks in the Dow H I still believe that we need more information and I understand that maybe that's not your job it's a a thing to the out to to solve we we will think about how to make a proposal in order to to get this this information to the stakeholders and that's it thank you very much thanks great to be here okay I don't know if someone in the the audience has any question that they

want to address I I haven't looked at the chat the chat if there was some question we can give a minute to the chat if there's any question well I think no one's typing so thank you very much SE and that's all for today for the ABC meeting thank you very much to everyone for coming and as Chris said at the beginning of the meeting we are not going to celebrate the following two weeks we're not going to celebrate any subcommittee meeting we are going to move up to the to the last one of the quarter to discuss the the Align

proposal document thank you very much to everyone and see you in the chat and the Forum goodbye everyone thank you for joining us and thank you Pedro and Sebastian for your time for the discuss these kind of debates are beneficial it help us everyone to understand more about what's the topic of of the discussion and your job in here uh and your insights more important as Peter mention there won't be meetings for the following two weeks so expect a meeting on September 28 at the same time uh that will be all thank you so much